To feel so fed up that the only way to get a good education seems to be privately?

It has never been essential to be qualified to teach at an English school.

The govt do bleat on about it but at most the school just needs to show no qualified suitable applicants applied. Which is distressingly easy to do a lot of the time.

Explanation for non teachers: "non qualified" means "no PGCE or equivalent on the job teaching qualification." It does NOT mean "no degrees, no other qualifications, no relevant teaching experience etc".

Most teachers at independent schools do have PGCE these days. There tend to be more with doctorates and Oxbridge quals too as it looks good on a staff list.

If you can’t afford private you have no choice. Unless you are willing to move I see no point in your OP other than a pointless rant which, wil be of no help to your DC.

Don’t judge a school by its exterior.

My DC, 4 STEM A levels taken in 2023, state from secondary (previously lived abroad) got the grades needed to get into a medical degree a mix of A stars and A’s. Most of his friends got all A stars.

We live up North in a nice large well connected village but the local towns are deprived. However, the teaching staff, the pastoral care, the general vibe of the school/6th form college community was one of respect, approachability and helping the students achieve their potential. Not all statistics or outward appearance of buildings show the true picture of how a school truly is.

My DD9 is in state primary school and flourishing in a class of 30, is the school perfect no, but she enjoys learning and is making great progress and has a lovely friendship group. My DSC - all went to state primary and secondary, one is at drama school doing very well, one graduated last year with degree in marine biology and is off exploring the world and the other got a first in his masters and is working in London for civil service. They are not an exception in their friendship groups & the kids they grew up with who went to same or similar schools are having similar experiences and opportunities. I think kindly you need to get a grip.

I understand "workings" aren't considered which from recollection when I learnt maths many years ago were important?

You don’t if it’s an academy

My eldest is now 21 and 14 years ago we had to move her from state to private primary school. She had a tough year group - fighting & high SEN needs. She also was undiagnosed autistic at the time and struggled with the classroom noise. She fell through the cracks. After multiple incidents with an another pupil we had to move her. We found a nurturing private school- it wasn’t academically the best but for her provided a calm place. For secondary she switched back to State but we did have to pay for tutors.

My second daughter went to the same state primary - completely different experience. Had a wonderful year group, parents invested and the school had a much better SEN support for the children that needed it. Still a tired old building!

It’s more than just the buildings or the teachers - my second daughter the parent group seemed more invested - 3 of us had children the same ages and we all said what a difference this year group was. They all starting their GCSE years (year 10) and they still a really lovely group. A very different experience from my eldest secondary experience.

You don’t control your feelings. And they are not the business of anybody else to police either.

Your actions are what may or may not be ethically defensible. Personally I think it’s ethically indefensible to prioritise a single group at school but schools always have. They change the group every few years to keep it fresh.

Those schools may not be good in ten years time. Leadership changes can cause schools to plummet quickly. And yes, as a pp said, assuming everyone has the choice and freedom to move into good catchments is pretty naive.

Most schools now use one of the many many maths apps for regular homework setting. They usually have videos etc embedded and the concepts of geometry or algebra are universal so it doesn't much matter that it's not their own personal teacher. It allows teachers also to see how much time has been spent on it, how often they've accessed the app for revision etc. I have no issues with these "shortcuts" being used when it's appropriate and useful. I teach a humanities subject so doesn't really work for me but I don't begrudge colleagues using them. I teach the same lesson to the whole year group so I have far less planning than a maths teacher who sees one group most days.

Because obviously not everyone can live near to good schools, seems pretty obvious really.

Why choose to live in a place with poor schools? It is something that should be considered pre conception. The schools round here are all good, and I knew this pre having kids. Else we would've moved. All the primary schools here are good, the secondary's very good. Ds2 is still at secondary, his is exceptional, I've been happy with Ds1's and Ds2's education.

I have to say I find this maths app really quite shocking. I've only recently found out about it. It doesn't seem to involve a teacher at all which is concerning as my youngest is hopeless at maths.

I do wonder how strss levels vary between an English teacher with multiple essays to nark, and a maths teacher who can set the homework on an app, which then marks the homework.

I agree re the marking.

The Sutton Trust were (presumably) looking at class size re grade outcomes and not 'pricing in' teacher retention.

Coursework marking was one of the main factors that drove me out of a grammar school job.

6 bits of coursework x 50 ish kids a year. Bleuch. I would never take a job on a coursework subject again!

I can tolerate exam class mocks as my current school actually let us have gained time (translation for non teachers: you work 7 days a week in exam season and then don't have too much to do once the exams are over).

My DD’s state primary was scruffy but wonderful and she was very happy there. Her original state secondary had much more modern, nicer facilities but she had a horrendous experience and we had to move her. You need to look past the buildings.

There is a medium though. My first A Level Lit class had 5. Fortunately all prepared to chat and disagree so just about worked. I would say somewhere between 10-15 is my ideal for A Level. Below that I would like to see a max of 20.

It won’t happen in state for financial reasons.

Class size has a much larger impact on teacher well being though.
I’m currently marking my GCSE English mocks (we do all 4 papers in full). Smaller classes would make a HUGE difference to me. And would make me able to give better more useful feedback. And more attention to each student.
It’s, unsurprisingly, difficult to isolate what has biggest impact, separating out correlation and causation is hard. But smaller, more manageable classes, I strongly suspect, correlates with a more stable work force who are more willing to involve themselves with extra and supra curricular activities.

If you've got a good state school near you then it's a no brainer..most people prefer not to have to incur the huge financial commitment of private school for years and once you're in that system it's tricky to get out of. But if the schools in your area are bad then if you can afford it private school can be amazing for a child. It's just relevant circumstances. I've done both.

The actual evidence on class size impact on learning is weak (I refer to the Sutton Trust meta reviews of the research evidence).

If you teach a subject that requires discussion (I do) then a bigger class gives you a wider range of students and opinions. Small classes can be very exposing for students too. Not everyone likes that.

Im amazed you get any choice! We live in London and applied to the four nearest state schools. All rated 'excellent' by Ofsted. Didn't get in to any of them due to oversubscription. We were offered a school on the other side of the borough which was (I believe the term used then 'adequate', but did not have a good reputation.
Where I live now has two 'good' and one 'excellent' primary within walking distance. Talking to the owner of two kids FOUR DOORS away from one of them and she said they didn't get a place (must have been a lot of sibling applications that year).
You move to where the schools are good and pay the price in property, and still might not get a place!

I got a terrific classical music education in the state sector in Kent in the 80s. All that's now moved into the charitable sector and the only fully funded opportunities are for the poorest.

Instrument tuition is at least £200 a term.

We paid nothing like that in the 80s.

Just on the music front @devongirl12, you'd be better to encourage them to sing or learn a band or orchestra instrument. Then they'd have access to expert coaching and could do concerts and tours etc. Piano's no good for that.

Schools are now are very different to when we went to school

I had a great education - local primary school, comprehensive secondary school then travelled a bit further afield to a good local 6th form college. Went on to get a first class degree. Studied abroad. Have travelled interesting places, played an instrument. Am now in a job I like. My sibling has a similar story. I don't see what private school would have added to my life.

" Why should some kids get small classes, loads of sport opportunities and nice clean and tidy environments when others don’t. Doesn’t seem right or fair."

I agree it isn't fair, but remember it's a very small percentage that go to private schools and have these advantages.

I think, like anything in life, you just have to do the best with what you have.

We moved house last year to get into a better school catchment.

I decided to try and fill some of the gaps of things they will miss out on in private school. But I don't really think it can be done.

Ive enrolled them in sports clubs but DP and protecting hours and often can't manage to take them.

They both have piano lessons and I bought a piano for at home. But life is so hectic that they never get the time to practice and DP and I aren't musical so can't help them.

We pay a fortune to stay in the nice area in good school catchment. Mortgage is huge and the house is small. Whereas other people in the area bought years ago and have very small mortgages and much more disposable income. Some of them work part time in their 40s and have very relaxed lifestyles.

Some local kids are at private schools. But the others are at the local state school but benefiting from the wealthy, educated, part-time parents with good jobs.

I guess that is who we are trying to to emulate. But it is very hard.

You just need to do the best you can.