To think the call back into the office is an example of the patriarchy very much alive and well?

I work for a very big advertising company who have announced going up to 4 days a week in office this week. It’s not gone down well. In the 5 years since Covid we have seen an increase in women staying in the business, people staying in the business post children and people from lower income backgrounds being able to start work in an industry which has typically been a bit privileged really. It’s a demanding industry where late work and sometimes odd hours are standard and some of this being from
home had meant many of us have been able to manage our family commitments while keeping up with this kind of role.

Many in my position are now reconsidering if we can maintain our roles - something will have to give if we’re commuting more often and losing the time to handle our family life with work. That is absolutely going to be an anti family thing.

I like working from the office by the way. I just can’t do it all!

Rightly or wrongly the lion's share of child rearing and household chores fall on women - which is work - yet we are expected to work outside the home also, as it has now become almost impossible to raise a family on one salary. So much for choice... most people no longer have a choice whether to be a stay at home parent or work outside the home they must do this, yet balancing this with going to into the office is VERY hard. Making WFH more difficult, when everyone knows it can work very effectively is ridiculous - WFH it should be available for anyone unless there is a very good business reason not to have it.

And in any event, managers who judge people on where their bottoms are located when they do their work, rather than the outputs and even more importantly the outcomes of that work need to go back to management school.

It's not about 'prestenteeism'. It's about relationships, observing and learning. There are lots of aspects of working with people that doesn't translate well online.

You have the choice to find alternative employment if you’re unhappy!

You can 'choose' in the sense that you can find a WFH job. Or you can put in a flexible working request, though there's no obligation for your employer to accept it, absent a good reason on your part.

However, you cannot 'choose' in the sense of being able to WFH even if your employer wants you in the office. Their obligation is to their business, not to your childcare arrangements. These indignant 'being forced back into the office' threads are starting to take the proverbial.

Would you not be amenable to 1 or 2 days in the office even OP? Give it a go and see how you get on first!

No... I see it as almost the opposite. You want to work from home so you can do household related chores. If we are saying the call back to the office is regarsinf the patriarchy, we are effectively accepting that household chores are 'female' chores. They're not - they're shares chores. In fact, my husband does more household chores/ childcare than I do as I have the more demanding job.

Instead, an argument that would make more sense would that the call back to the office is making life more difficult for working parents. That, I would agree with.

I'm a man and I do agree regarding the laundry and cooking.

My wife works two days a week, which coincides with me working from home.

It allows me to:
Drop my sons off at school and childminder.
Do mine and their laundry.
I prep dinner during my lunch break and then cook it in the Instant Pot, so that I don't need to monitor it/risk it burning if I get caught up in work.
Collect the kids from the childminder at 5pm.

I'm not sure I'd agree that it impacts women disproportionately. I expect most people do these tasks when they work from home.

Exactly - MNers are obsessed with people using WFH as childcare. You'd think childcare didn't exist.

And the fact that the odd person posts on MN about WFH while having a toddler at home does not mean that everyone with young kids is doing it.

Are they? Women don’t own companies or run businesses? That’s news to me, I’ve worked for two companies owned by women.

You haven’t responded to the comments about your lazy husband OP. If posters have been unfair, stand up for him! If they haven’t, stand up for yourself.

We have flex (we can WFH 50%) in our office and the men are just as eager as the women to be at home when the kids return from school and to put dinner in the slow cooker at lunch time etc etc. I’m seeing both sexes at work enjoy the practical benefits of WFH 5 days per fortnight. If your husband genuinely can’t WFH because he’s a plumber or a doctor or something, at least ensure that he’s pulling his weight when he comes home if he’s not already.

It's more important that washing your husbands socks

Is career really the most important thing in life?.

No but many people choose a 'career' rather than a 'job' and it's natural to want to progress in that career. There is quite a bit of evidence emerging that shows women are disproportionately impacted by WFH when it comes to career progression. One of the reasons is the lack of exposure and opportunities to learn from other female leaders through observation and interaction.

This is a patriarchal view in itself. The assumption that employers have the upper hand and don't actually need talented people to do the work that creates the value and income for them.

Employers who value their people and work with them, instead of against them, get better outcomes.

If employers in the UK had to have workers' councils, the RTO trend would not be happening.

If your partner doesn’t pick up the slack then that’s something you raise with him. If he refuses to pull his weight then that’s a problem that’s nothing to do with WFH.

Actually OP it’s because of people like you that employers are pulling staff into the office. Pisstakers who do the washing/run errands/look after their kids while their employer is paying them to work for them.

Working from home doesn’t mean you pay for less childcare, your children are meant to be in childcare regardless of where you work, and plenty of employers now make applicants sign a declaration that they have additional childcare in place if they’re working from home.

I work from home full-time which suits me on some levels as I have a disability. However working from home means I’ve worked for a company for two years, have done all of my training remotely, and have never once met any of my colleagues. My job is such that I need to be seen at my desk so there’s no scope for taking the piss like so many do. But even if I didn’t have to be visible, I’m paid to do a job, not the washing and cleaning the house and cooking tonight’s dinner.

Yes, I agree with this completely.

There are a lot of people who will take the piss with WFH. And it's not easy to spot as some think, many jobs aren't mainly about measurable productivity points that will be regular for all. It can be very hard to manage people, to see if they struggle, to mentor, offer help and improve performance.

And it can be very difficult to prove people are skivving off even when you suspect it and that can make it difficult to fire them. Some companies do things like measure keystrokes to help deal with that, but God, that's worse than being in the office IMO. (Apparently people have figured out ways to get aroundthese measures though, machines that wiggle your mouse etc. Which goes to show that there are really people who are not being honest with WFH.)

Training young people is very difficult in settings where people mainly WFH.

This! Nailed it. Wfh just means women have to do more domestic tasks at the same time.

Same. It might be because we are an entirely remote (international) team.
We enjoy flexibility and (apart from maternity leave) there's little difference in what we're doing - school run, school events, appointments, sick kid at home, going to the shops, caring for parents. There's no astonishment or comment.

I hate WFH from a social POV and there is absolutely no way I’m doing laundry on my lunch break but I find the lack of distraction really positive and the lack of commute on top of nursery drop off is the difference between me being able to work in my job and not. The little 30 mins I save on either side is a game changer.

Saying that, my job can be done from home well and there’s zero benefit to being in the office (I pop in for meetings where necessary). I’m sure some jobs it just doesn’t fit and some people who use it as an opportunity to skive (although back when I was office based I worked alongside quite a few office based skivers 🤷‍♀️)

Yes there always seems to be this assumption that everyone wants to progress.

Everyone doesn't. And in any event, managers who judge people on where their bottoms are located when they do their work, rather than the outputs and even more importantly the outcomes of that work need to go back to management school.

I think you should be able to choose if your employer deems it appropriate for the business. Your sex and childcare responsibilities shouldn't impact on whether it's a viable choice.

I’m not sure I agree that this is a patriarchal move from the employer. They have a business requirement / strategy and are inacting it.

I personally work from home and it is great as with two young kids I sleep not that much and I get a little done household wise during my lunch hour and before work. However, my husband in a much higher paying job, also works from home and does probably more school and nursery / school drop offs and pick ups than me.

By all means argue the change as you will have custom in practice on your side but as I imagine you don’t have a work from home contract and this is in no way discrimination you might find yourself dismissed if you refuse to comply.

Sorry as it must be a bit stressful (I know that’s how I would feel if me or DH were recalled full time to the office!).

I agree with you OP. It's mainly rich men with stay at home wives who don't want to take responsibility for their own kids who call for RTO. Although you do get the odd female CEO who insists on it as well.

Take heart though. After the Black Death the peasants wanted more money and the landowners fought hard. But in the end they had to capitulate. Following covid, people have seen that spending hours commuting to sit on Teams calls in an office is pointless. Employers don't like the loss of control. And are sticking their fingers in their ears saying la la la can't hear you when employees say they want more flexibility. But things will change.