To think the call back into the office is an example of the patriarchy very much alive and well?

Some truth to this for sure, but I think the bigger elephant in the room in these discussions is always commute times.

So many people have really substantial commutes, not because they have just decided they want to live far from employment, but because housing near their employment is often unavailable or financially out of reach.

This comes down to failures around housing development and community planning.

In a well planned communitiy, business and industry should be able to house their workers close to work. That will usually mean that appropriate housing at various price points will have to be found in neighbourhoods where people can walk, bike, or take a short ride of public transport.

This is much more commonly available in small cities and towns, but anyone who has had that kind of situation will realize what a burden it lifts. In large cities it's often impossible to get a situation like this. It's a shocking difference, years ago when my kids were young, we moved from a situation with a long commute, to my husband having a 10 minute bus ride, that dropped him almost door to door. He could walk in a pinch, for that matter. It added a huge amount of family time and core time to his day.

In the town I work in now, a lot of people in my workplace will go home for lunch!

This is something that would require a lot of thought and change to make happen, however. But it's much more of an issue than an employer saying they want the job the are paying for to be done in a particular place. In fact, more people using WFH is likely to make the problem worse.

the situation with your colleague with a debilitating spinal condition is not comparable.

his employer would not be able to "force him back into the office 5 days a week". your colleague is protected under the Equality Act (2010) and would apply for a reasonable adjustment. If they denied him that, he would take them straight to Employment Tribunal, but it wouldn't even get that far.

It was mainly driven by two female senior managers in my office. One’s a dinosaur control freak and the other is angry at the world so makes every effort to ensure staff are miserable and demoralised at all times.

People are now leaving in droves, both men and women. Corporate really is a cesspit.

This is absolutely the patriarchy. There's evidence that when new mothers are allowed to wfh, they are multiple times more likely to stay in the workforce. It cuts the motherhood penalty almost in half.

The only reason I am in a senior work role is because my DH (in his own senior role) can wfh as much as he wants and does most of our childcare pickups.

As someone working full time from home and who used to work in the office, during the wfh period I've been diagnosed with adhd and autism. I don't think i could ever work full time in an office again, now i know what i know. I can't cope with the sensory overwhelm, the commute, the lack of free time (we didn't have a break room, so the only place to go to get away from your desk was standing in the corridor. Now i can go sit on my own sofa for 10 minutes). I don't have a clue how i coped before. I was permanently burnt out, i think. Plagued with anxiety and depression. Since working from home I've come off my anti depressants as i don't need them anymore. I'm a far more effective worker from home because i can sit down and my environment is exactly what i need it to be so i just start working instead of trying to cope with an environment that was antithetical to me in every way. I'm not lazy - quite the opposite.

I think the forced return to offices for no good reason is far more of a problem for disabled workers than it is for mothers, but both groups are significantly more negatively affected than able bodied men who probably make up the majority of management.

I think it's a bit rich to blame this all on the Labour government they've only just started governing... but I guess that's a debate for a different thread. Just because they are entitled to ask people to do this does not make it a good decision.

In fact some companies are being absolutely ridiculous with this, for example, my husbands employers have recently moved to a smaller office block with fewer desks - they all hot desk - and have to book desks before they go to work. They recently announced they want everyone in 4/5 days a week - yet they haven't got the desk space - so this can't happen. Makes them look silly and petty as clearly it's not essential they are all in otherwise they would have made sure they had the desk space!

I work from home. But I do wonder how all these people saying they get x, y and z done coped before covid when people were in 5 days a week usually.

surley its not down to the employees to prop up the local coffee shops, sandwich bars etc especially considering the prices

I could easily do a fully remote role now as an experienced solicitor. However when I was training and newly qualified and pre children I enjoyed going to the office everyday, the social side and also that’s how I learnt, watching colleagues work, in court, how they dealt with colleagues, their body language etc. I think more junior staff need some office time and face to face.

I agree 100% WFH is terrible for young people starting out, people training and learning ‘on the job’ but there are definite benefits for many.

Perhaps hybrid working is the ideal for a lot of people?

He is already in the post. But disabled people applying for a new post and saying they need to wfh a;; the time are very unlikely to get the job

And this is where you need flexibility not necessarily a permanent wfh arrangement.

The economy in the UK is tanking right now due to Labour's economic policies and businesses are looking to cut people left right and centre. They don't need to offer pay rises to get people back in the office, most are entitled to ask people to come back under their existing employment contracts and if some employees don't like it and leave voluntarily it will save the company on redundancy costs. Not disagreeing with you about costs having increased significantly by the way, so it will have a financial impact on a lot of people, just that many employers probably won't care as it's ultimately not their problem and the job market is very different to a few years ago.

@squirrelnutcartel
if your DS has a disability I’d advise he requests additional home working as a reasonable adjustment.

I can’t WFH but my partner does. He is able to get a wash on, prep dinner and take a walk during his break and lunch period. He does this each week. It’s very good for the whole family and his days at home are so much easier for all of us and he’s very productive at work.

wfh is crap for young people / trainees.

Yep. I have an adjustment that means I can attend the office less often than other people, but I've just had a 6 month fight to keep it, which made me more ill. I'm not bothered about being at home to put my washing on, I want to be able to do my job! The union have had so many similar cases, and I have other colleagues still waiting for decisions.

Women being SAHMs is in fact a very recent, culture- and time-specific notion. Most mothers, of most classes, in most places, have always worked.

Wow you’re nice aren’t you. I expect that attitude won’t help your career progression!

Absolutely, I can't WFH - never have WFH but my husband does and he does chores and the school run.. now he is expected to return to the office more days which is potentially an issue for us.

I wish I could like this more than once.

Exactly 💯

It was a situation forced on us during lockdown but now many think it should be the norm, they tend to forget that s/he who pays the pipier............

I agree with OP. Feminism is about women having more choices. Because women tend to do more household labour a typical woman's choices are more limited than a typical man's if they lose the option of working from home.

Utterly ridiculous. Why don't you get your husband to find the patriarchy. Let him fight for the right to work from home so he can be an equal parent.
You want to fight so that woman are stuck at home, working full time and doing everything else at home, so men can walk out in the morning and be back in the evening to kids tucked in bed and their hot dinners. Wtf.
Are you OK?