DS spends all his time with GF and she doesn’t speak to us

@NotOneOfTheInCrowd It's not difficult to diagnose. Where did you get that from?
It's easy to diagnose.

I was like this with my first bf family. My own family was very fractured and I had hardly any relationship with them, so didn’t engage in reciprocal conversations etc. I was really comfortable with my friends and colleagues but talking to my bf parents used to make me so anxious. They were very family oriented at best and overbearing at worst and I found it really uncomfortable
My bf also told me that his parents and sister thought I was rude, I think to try and get me to make an effort but it made it worse and awkward.
i would back right off and stop talkin go to your son about it too. Teenage relationships can be intense and you’ll have to accept that your son is growing up and making his own decisions

It's typical Mumsnet, rushing to diagnose everything. She sounds like a very rude girl to me and she wouldn't be welcome in my home.

I don't speak much to DD2's boyfriend and just leave them to it. I don't make them sit round the table for family meals. Don't really see the problem tbh.

Nope.

Because person one having an accident means that them breaking their back is entirely possible or at least having had an injury,

Whereas someone being blatantly ignorant doesn’t necessarily have a condition, or should we just assume now that rudeness doesn’t exist?

The next time someone comes on here saying they’re being ignored by their MIL, spoken down to by their partner, abused in any way we should tell them to be more understanding should we? Because the person must have an invisible condition which apparently is difficult to diagnose but we must just accept it.

SM isn't impossible to diagnose face to face, it's rather easy to diagnose.

The issue is that it's under diagnosed because people don't know about it, not because it is really hard to diagnose.

Selective mutism is relatively common but very under diagnosed. Current diagnosis rates are about 1 in 140 children but it is thought to be more common than that. As stated above, it is often linked with autism, but not always.

In the name "selective mutism", "selective" is a medical term that means 'with specific effects; not pervasive ". It does NOT mean anything about "selecting" when you speak. We know the inhibition of speech in SM is NOT voluntary. It's a bit like stage fright or being "struck dumb" - an involuntary inability to speak or otherwise communicate. It's an anxiety response rather like a "rabbit in the headlights" freeze - and it usually only happens when triggered by being expected to interact with an unsafe person, just like a person with a spider phobia is fine until the instant they see a spider.

Some people with SM cannot speak at all outside their "safe people" or "safe space"; others can reply with a few words, particularly where the response requires just a yes/no answer and/or the person is certain of their answer. SM is different from shyness but is often misinterpreted as severe shyness.

Everyone with SM's pattern of communication inhibition is different. For my child it was the person not the space - he could respond to me almost anywhere but could not speak to, say, his doctor in any setting. For others, they cannot speak in a certain setting (eg school). Others cannot speak to adults but can speak to some peers. It all depends on what triggers the anxiety shut-down response.

Many with SM are undiagnosed.

If anyone thinks their family may be affected by SM then I would urge you to explore the SMiRA website (UK national charity) at selectivemutism.org.uk . There are lots of free downloadable information sheets and links.

My son had a GF who was not shy. She didn't say hello or goodbye, rude. I made it clear to son she observes these very basics of politeness and he should always do that at others houses, or she doesn't come. She started conforming. Also any food or drink had to be eaten downstairs, not necessarily with the rest of the family and I think this got her used to us a bit.

Scenario 1 - person in car crash lying on floor in agony, can't move themselves.
We don't know they have a broken back, they havent yet had a scan,but there's a good chance they have so we don't move them as we could do a hell of alot of damage.

Scenario 2 - person talks freely in some situations, doesn't say one word in others. We don't know it's selective mutism but there is a good chance- so do we call it out, ban her from the house, get the boyfriend to tell her it's unacceptable thereby causing a hell of alot of damage?

See the difference?
Until things are clearer, take the least damaging approach.

I think you need to talk to him op.

If she’s not speaking to his friends there’s no reason for her to be there. He needs to see his friends without her.

I'm amazed at how many people would allow someone to repeatedly disrespect them in their own home. I'd tell her to come back when she's learned some manners.

People are observing that the unexplained 'angry' face, struggle with eye contact and social chit chat and social communication are classic signs of autism.
I have a master's degree in SEND and have spent 20 years working in this field, as well as having autistic children. My previous job involved sitting on the ND pathway panels that give diagnoses of autism.
People are making sensible observations about the GF's presentation. Thankfully these days, the general public's awareness of neuro diversity is increasing as is people's understanding of how to support neuro diverse individuals.
Apologies if this doesn't fit with your 'rude teenager' narrative.

Mutism?! For fucks sake, she's shy. give her time.

Nobody who is able to say hello and goodbye to their boyfriends parents would choose not to. Come on.

If she has selective mutism she is not choosing to not speak. She physically can't.

My dd is 16 and will not look or talk to most people . She doesn't mean to come across rude.
She is Autistic and just can't bring herself to talk or acknowledge most people.
How do you know she isn't autistic or just very socially awkward.
I have a great resting b face and look angry . I can't help it. It's just my face.
Also he is nearly 18 . Just let him do what he wants . It's normal for teenagers to spend less time with parents at that age.
If you put loads of pressure on him you will just push him away .
My kid sister moved in with me at 16 just to have some independence from overbearing parents . She never moved back home. And then travelled.

I had no idea that there were so many professionals on this thread who are apparently able to diagnose a condition which is almost impossible to diagnose face to face. Truly fantastic that.

The reason why teenagers are so bloody rude, and frankly are doomed to crashed adulthoods is because they’ve been brought up to have no resilience, no manners, and never be allowed to be challenged.

These teenagers are going to be the ones cutting off their parents in 10 years time for not allowing them to grow up with any life skills or resilience.

Nobody acknowledges that children are rude, naughty, ill mannered any more. All behaviour has to be brushed away as “they sound neurodiverse.”

Now here’s the thing, there are so many out there now claiming to be neurodiverse, that neurotypical isn’t actually a thing any more.

Why not just accept that we’re all different, but that we do have to co exist in society, and part of that is having basic manners.

My eldest ds had a gf just like this. She really cheesed off his siblings with her rudeness. He always said it was shyness. They now live together with her son and their joint twins. She very slowly changed. Now we have a pretty normal relationship. Though it took 5 years before she would talk to us at all. Ds seems pretty happy

You don't know she hasn't. But all the signs are there. HTH

@Eaglemom

you don’t know she has selective mutism. Hth.

Everyone will have their own opinion based on their personal life experiences and due to the very small amount of information available, nobody on MN can know what is motivating this girl's behaviour.

However, this sounds suspiciously like the beginning of a coercive controlling relationship in which she is currently love-bombing your son while also working quite hard to isolate him from his support network, i.e. his friends and family.

The fact that she makes sure that she is present for all his social interactions is concerning.

If this turns out to be what's behind it all, the key to supporting your son is to do all you can to maintain a loving relationship with him while avoiding criticising her. If you want him to consider something ask questions what might prompt him to think about her motivations rather than expressing opinions about her.

I hope I'm wrong but everything you've said about her fits well into this scenario.

Look I've had enough as you have of me I'm sure.
But look, this child is showing classic signs of selective mutism.
If there is a chance and there is a high chance, why would anyone want to.make life much worse by judging and alienating her further? Even mentioning it would be devastating for her.
It sounds like OP is exploring the whys and wherefors and considering her approach going forward which is the best thing for all concerned.
Some replies screaming rudeness and keep her away and have a word with her would be far more damaging than you can comprehend.
That is why I am sticking up.for her so much.
Selective mutism is real, it is awful for the sufferer and with understanding and empathy people can make huge strides.
Its awful.when people presume the symptoms are because of rudeness etc when actually at the root of it all is crippling anxiety.
Please consider this with anybody you know who are unable to speak.in certain situations.
People really cannot help it.
It is not a choice.
If they could talk they would and like Ive said before it is absolutely crushingly awful for the sufferer. We really do not need to be adding to their distress.
As another poster said it is woefully underdiagnosed, and woefully misunderstood as demonstrated by the majority on this post.
Just have a read up about it.

I was very shy in my teens and wouldn't say boo to a goose. However, there is a difference between shyness and rudeness. No matter how shy I was, I never went to a boyfriend's house and ignored/didn't speak to his family. Even a 'hello', 'goodbye', 'thank you for having me' doesn't take much effort. In my mind your son's girlfriend is rude, not shy. If she's working, then she has to interact with people in her place of work. She doesn't have to sit downstairs and eat, or make conversation, but she should at the very least say 'hello' and 'goodbye'. That should be the bear minimum by anyone's standard, as it's basic manners. You need a chat with your son regarding his girlfriend's attitude.

My autistic daughter has experienced selective autism. She has poor use of and understanding of non verbal communication such as facial expressions.
When overwhelmed and unable to speak I dare say that people could describe her as looking angry when that will have been the last thing she was thinking.
The comment about her 'looking angry' as well as the fact that she has been drawn to your son who is ND make it quite likely in my opinion that she is demonstrating difficulties understanding and engaging in social communication.
If you don't make a fuss, and help her to feel comfortable, you will hopefully eventually become familiar enough to begin to communicate with you.

OP it seems like you've had a loving and very involved relationship with your children. At his age most do start to drift towards friends, boyfriends, girlfriends and away from family. It seems like you have high expectations of the time he 'should' spend with family. Your comment about his responsibility to family really stood out to me. At his age, I would say he has no responsibility to spend time with family.

If his girlfriend is changing the atmosphere and making you feel uncomfortable you could speak to him about her saying hello and goodbye as a start, but really would that make you feel hugely more comfortable for it to be worth the awkward conversation and forced greetings?

It sounds like she's only at you house once a week, so not inflicting an atmosphere onto you constantly which is what I'd assumed from your first post.

I would carry on saying hello and goodbye and being polite and interested in her. If she is shy that will help her open up over time. If she's rude, I'm sure that will give your son the opportunity to see that for himself.