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AIBU?

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To resent the cognitive dissonance that exists around climate change

388 replies

JacquesHarlow · 10/01/2025 09:21

Let’s be real - will anything get better when folk’s priorities are usually about themselves?

Let me explain my rather emotional opening point.

There’s been lots of news this week unsurprisingly about how we had the hottest year on record last year. The last 10 years have been the hottest on record. Wildfires, floods, you name it - the earth is changing.

Yet here in the temperate, largely rainy UK, many people I see around me are very happy to have their head in the sand, while also bizarrely choosing just one or two lines of attack on the climate crisis to shame others.

One of the parents i know has an electric car. It’s nice, I’m happy for them. They also take at least five flight a year. They have three children.

Yet if you hear them talk about diesel cars… it’s as if the owners are personally killing everyone around them.

Now don’t get me wrong. Emissions locally are important, the air our kids breathe is important. that might be a focus.

However you see it in the choice of car journeys over trains, of large SUVs over a normal family car like a Golf.

The latter particularly grates. We have a huge climate crisis. Yet Joanna or Nicola has to have a Discovery Sport for her three kids because she needs to sit high up, it’s easier to load them in, and she worries about crash worthiness.

The history books will show that rather than looking up and out for each other, we’re actually turning more inwards. Our own personal economy will always triumph over needing to protect others. If I’m able to pay £400 a month PCP on a Dispcvery Sport, then “I’ll protect my family over anything”, even though the entire thought process is irrational.

We need to take fewer flights and more rail journeys. working from home should mean more walking to school as the commute has gone. instead we’re seeing more car journeys. More flights. More large purchases; throwaway electronics; fast fashion.

AIBU to think there’s a lot of cognitive dissonance and head in the sand about climate change in the UK, and spending power (and the choices it unlocks) is king?

OP posts:
JaneBannock · 12/01/2025 02:15

DdraigGoch · 12/01/2025 02:12

The biggest polluters are the likes of Exxon, BP and Shell. If no one was buying their petrol then they would go out of business and their pollution would therefore stop. When you use fossil fuels you are funding them (and also funding Russia's invasion of Ukraine, wars are a massive source of pollution). Vote with your wallet and reduce consumption by as much as possible.

Most of their buyers are massive companies, not someone filling their tank

DdraigGoch · 12/01/2025 02:12

JaneBannock · 12/01/2025 02:06

Nothing we can do as a person or as a family will ever overtake the harm that the biggest companies do to our environment.

We can do our best, but we will never make even a dent in what is happening. Upsetting, but true.

The biggest polluters are the likes of Exxon, BP and Shell. If no one was buying their petrol then they would go out of business and their pollution would therefore stop. When you use fossil fuels you are funding them (and also funding Russia's invasion of Ukraine, wars are a massive source of pollution). Vote with your wallet and reduce consumption by as much as possible.

DdraigGoch · 12/01/2025 02:08

JustGotToKeepOnKeepingOn · 11/01/2025 22:06

"actually many have reasonable public transport already"

This really isn't true. I live 6 miles from my place of work. To get there by public transport would take 1.5 hours. By car it's 20 minutes. Plus I can do school drop off on the way.

There's no way I could be without a car.

The plural of anecdote is not data. The quoted passage said "many", not "all". Six miles would be 30 minutes by bike so only 10 minutes more than by car, and it's perfectly possible to incorporate the school drop-off into that. You'd save a fortune.

JaneBannock · 12/01/2025 02:06

Nothing we can do as a person or as a family will ever overtake the harm that the biggest companies do to our environment.

We can do our best, but we will never make even a dent in what is happening. Upsetting, but true.

DdraigGoch · 12/01/2025 02:04

SofaSurfer1993 · 11/01/2025 19:23

I care and do my bit but certain things are unaffordable. Eg rail travel/it’s cheaper to take the car. Refillable rice/shampoo etc/Cheaper to buy at the supermarket as I can buy value ranges.

Things I’m happy to do; Recycle/Use Vinted/Reuse gift bags

Won’t be giving up my plane travel (twice this year)

We’re changing the car from electric to hybrid.

Have you ever tried a bar of shampoo? They last absolutely ages, so you save money in the long run.

DdraigGoch · 12/01/2025 02:03

Electric vehicles are an environmental disaster. It’s better for the environment to keep running an old car for longer than buying an electric car.

It's not as black & white as that. It depends on how much you use it. Sure, old Doris who only uses her car to go to bingo every other Tuesday and therefore racks up little mileage should keep her old car. If you're racking up hundreds of miles a week however then you should replace with a newer, more efficient model.

But preferably the local buses should run late enough for old Doris to catch one to the bingo, while long journeys should be ideal for the train.

JustGotToKeepOnKeepingOn · 11/01/2025 22:06

"actually many have reasonable public transport already"

This really isn't true. I live 6 miles from my place of work. To get there by public transport would take 1.5 hours. By car it's 20 minutes. Plus I can do school drop off on the way.

There's no way I could be without a car.

B0xes · 11/01/2025 21:52

VoodooRajin · 11/01/2025 20:21

This book argues otherwise, its an interesting read.
https://www.nottheendoftheworld.co.uk/

Lauded by Bill Gates...

VoodooRajin · 11/01/2025 20:21

B0xes · 11/01/2025 19:08

I don't think that's possible, industrial technology led to the explosion in population, before then nature imposed hard limits on how many the land could support, we can't sustain a huge population without the technologies that destroy the ecosystem. If you have something persuasive to the contrary, but our lifestyles will have to return to something so basic and uncomfortable there is simply no chance of that happening. It's really far far deeper than "choices".

This book argues otherwise, its an interesting read.
https://www.nottheendoftheworld.co.uk/

Not the End of the World | Hannah Ritchie

Data-driven book at our progress on tackling the world's environmental problems.

https://www.nottheendoftheworld.co.uk

SofaSurfer1993 · 11/01/2025 19:23

I care and do my bit but certain things are unaffordable. Eg rail travel/it’s cheaper to take the car. Refillable rice/shampoo etc/Cheaper to buy at the supermarket as I can buy value ranges.

Things I’m happy to do; Recycle/Use Vinted/Reuse gift bags

Won’t be giving up my plane travel (twice this year)

We’re changing the car from electric to hybrid.

RandomButtons · 11/01/2025 19:17

Electric vehicles are an environmental disaster. It’s better for the environment to keep running an old car for longer than buying an electric car.

So YABU because you’re not fully equating everything.

However, yes I’m fed up of the “I drive a Tesla” so I’m saving the environment then going on 4 foreign holidays a year crew.

sleepwouldbenice · 11/01/2025 19:09

kate592 · 11/01/2025 18:53

Aviation accounts for between 2.5 and 4% of global CO2 emissions. China's coal fired power stations are responsible for somewhere between 15 and 25% of global CO2 emissions. And that's China alone without considering India or the US - we were wringing our hands over having 1 remaining coal power station while China has over a thousand and are approving new ones at about 2 a week.

So people can stop taking flights if it makes them feel good about themselves but really they're just pissing in the wind. Personally I'm going to make the most of my life and fly as often as I can afford - but I only have one child, don't drive and am extremely frugal in many other ways. I'm not just being a completely selfish asshole, but travel is an amazing thing to do and even if we all give it up it's not going to save the world.

I do agree in many ways, and your post illustrates the OPs point

But come on, who buys much of the stuff from China? Do you know what they are doing with renewables ? Far ahead of the game, to get yet another economic advantage

B0xes · 11/01/2025 19:08

VoodooRajin · 11/01/2025 18:28

Or the people who are here make different choices

I don't think that's possible, industrial technology led to the explosion in population, before then nature imposed hard limits on how many the land could support, we can't sustain a huge population without the technologies that destroy the ecosystem. If you have something persuasive to the contrary, but our lifestyles will have to return to something so basic and uncomfortable there is simply no chance of that happening. It's really far far deeper than "choices".

sleepwouldbenice · 11/01/2025 19:06

I do agree about transport
Given where we live, partly rural but nearish a city, our local transport is ok and cheap enough
National transport is shocking. I wasn't entirely in favour of hs2 for environmental reasons but it was supposed to sort out capacity and therefore prices. It wasn't about speed.
But it's more than transport. It's cheaper energy provision (getting there with renewables) and usage, retrofitting, less meat/ dairy (and as pp said eating locally not shipping in avocados),simply consuming less stuff and repairing/ reusing. As well as flights of course.

In no way saying I am good at this, and much of it needs government action, but plenty can be done by individuals

As another pp said, the overindulgence of food, drink, presents and simply everything at Xmas ( and starting with Halloween) is a start....

kate592 · 11/01/2025 18:53

Aviation accounts for between 2.5 and 4% of global CO2 emissions. China's coal fired power stations are responsible for somewhere between 15 and 25% of global CO2 emissions. And that's China alone without considering India or the US - we were wringing our hands over having 1 remaining coal power station while China has over a thousand and are approving new ones at about 2 a week.

So people can stop taking flights if it makes them feel good about themselves but really they're just pissing in the wind. Personally I'm going to make the most of my life and fly as often as I can afford - but I only have one child, don't drive and am extremely frugal in many other ways. I'm not just being a completely selfish asshole, but travel is an amazing thing to do and even if we all give it up it's not going to save the world.

lllllllllll · 11/01/2025 18:33

Our government preaches about the environment and simultaneously wants to build, build, build hundreds of thousands more houses, often destroying nature and countryside in the process. It’s totally hypocritical.

VoodooRajin · 11/01/2025 18:28

B0xes · 11/01/2025 09:40

To cut climate change we need far fewer people on this earth. That's the dreadful truth.

Or the people who are here make different choices

Catza · 11/01/2025 18:24

VoodooRajin · 11/01/2025 17:11

Was the car free, and no running costs

No, the car wasn't free but it costs me less than £500 a year in maintenance. It was also a cheap car. So far it costs me less a year than 3 family train trips. And this will reduce further the longer I have this car, assuming there are no expensive repairs.

DdraigGoch · 11/01/2025 18:08

Lentilweaver · 10/01/2025 11:08

My sister in the US has 4 cars. One for each member of her family.. No option because there is zero public transport.

The richest country in the world relies on 1 cars per person. Why would you expect a person in Nigeria to not even buy their first car?

A developed country is not one where the poor have cars, it is one where the rich use public transport.

DdraigGoch · 11/01/2025 18:04

TriangleLight · 11/01/2025 08:39

How are people to get around then, @DdraigGoch ?

No proper public transport outside cities

We improve public transport and active travel infrastructure in provincial towns (actually many have reasonable public transport already). The more people who switch from cars to public transport, frequent buses will become more economical and they won't get stuck in traffic. The more people who switch from cars to active travel, the safer it becomes for everyone.

HaggardyOldSkin · 11/01/2025 17:34

Fluffyholeysocks · 10/01/2025 09:29

You'll never get people out of their cars until the shockingly unreliable and expensive rail service is vastly improved.

I have only read one response so far which nailed exactly what I was going to say. So many times in the last few years we’ve tried to sort out trains to go somewhere but the cost is prohibitive. Even with just one person travelling the car works out cheaper than the train almost always always, even with the railcard discount. As soon as you add in a second person it’s never cheaper by train. We just can’t afford to travel by train (but don’t use the car much either and rarely fly anywhere).

VoodooRajin · 11/01/2025 17:11

Catza · 10/01/2025 09:35

Environmentalism is a middle-class pursuit. I don't have a large or expensive car. I love taking a train but... over the holidays I went to London to see my friends. A return train ticket is £98 and it costs me just under £30 to complete the same journey in my car. I don't particularly love driving and I enjoy trains. But I don't have £100 to spare easily on a jolly trip. And I earn relatively well and have no dependents. A family with three kids on an average income is perfectly within their rights to spend £30 on a car journey vs £400 on a family train ride.

So society needs to change as a whole and it's the government's jobs, I'm afraid. I can be as vegan as I like and compost as much as I want but it will make very little tangible difference.

Was the car free, and no running costs

Billydavey · 11/01/2025 17:00

Nousernamesleftatall · 11/01/2025 10:29

Man made climate change is a con.

The planet warms and cools in cycles. Nothing to do with us. Remember the medieval warming period?

They predicted an ice age that never happened so they changed the con to climate change as the climate does change, hourly actually.

They will meet in Davos or similar flying in by private jet with a convoy of 4 x 4’s to eat Wagu beef (flown in specially) to discuss the sacrifices and the money you have to make to change the temperature. They know it’s a con of course.

Historically people thrive during a warm periods and persish during cooler periods. That is a fact.

You have to be a special kind of stupid to still be a climate change denier given the overwhelming evidence.

kudos for honestly though. Most people accept it’s happening but think it’s someone else’s problem to solve. You’re at least being sincere

JustGotToKeepOnKeepingOn · 11/01/2025 16:53

The changes need to come from the top. We were happy to recycle once the recycling bins were provided. All happy to reuse our plastic carrier bags when charges were applied.

I'd happily use an electric car if the infrastructure was in place and public transport if it existed effectively.

Once hydrogen fuelled houses have been developed and planes can fly by other energy, I'll happily use those too.

In the meantime, anything I do isn't going to make a jot of difference.

sleepwouldbenice · 11/01/2025 11:13

This is a very good post OP and I agree with your reasoning. I do lots myself for the environment but will turn a blind eye for other aspects

I totally agree that those citing China, India etc are the worst, just totally ignoring that our economy is funding theirs through everything we buy, and the fact that China is massively investing in green technology and energy

But we do need governments to do more. Unfortunately we are on the back of Brexit, wars, COL, covid. And seeing a world wide shift towards populist politics, much of which denies or works against climate change. The irony of this political view arguing against immigration,when their policies will cause major climate change in the future is staggering

But individuals can only do so much, they need transport, grants to retrofit homes, policies that drive businesses to consider the environment and investment in green policies.

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