To resent the cognitive dissonance that exists around climate change

Is there really a climate crisis? i say that with tongue in cheek!

In Europe, indeed the world, we are building for far more travel by plane, TV shows show us the wealthy travelling to far away places, encouraging us to all go there, Prince Charles on one hand says we must all be "Green" but travels all over the world, with his entourage.

Last night alone, new holiday series on the Med and the Seychelles, celebs having a jolly.
Doubtless a new attenborough program will share the secrets of yet another place no one had heard off, which we'll all want to go and wreck, sorry, visit.

Sports teams do like wise, constantly jetting around the world....

But apparently we can all avert disaster by scrapping our diesel cars, buying a Tesla etc & the poor can travel by a bus fueled by bio diesel or gas, produced by digging up the Amazon rain forest, well actually the poor cannot, as bus prices have increased beyond their means to pay for them.

That's not what cognitive dissonance is. It's the opposite in fact. People generally don't feel discomfort over their hypocrisy because they don't see it.

Tbh it's a bit hard to care on an individual level when businesses, factories, some cities, etc don't give a fuck. Me walking to the shop instead of driving does nothing against the carbon footprint these places continue to cause. I feel the same way when people try to make it my responsibility to give to charity when there are businesses and billionaires out there giving fuck all.

In my view the earth will manage. It will correct what we are doing. Population reduction will happen naturally, we are already sicker as we poisoned our food chains and environment. Fertility issues are increaaing...

Humanity will probably end itself and climate will recover.

I have read 2 books by experts, about climate change. How many minerals mined in the production of electricity vehicles. I do my best. We have solar panels, grow a lot of our own fruit and veg,used to have chicken,no passport last holiday almost 17 years ago. Clothes vinted or practically vintage,trench Mac and camel jacket over 40 years old. A great deal of our furniture came from charity shops.washing machine full load only, mainly cold wash,dried outside. The friends I have who bleat most are the ones with new cars, every couple of years , several holidays a year,long haul. I think most people in the UK would severely doubt that last year was the hottest on record! I remember in the 60s, no rain for 3 months,water to homes turned off,you had to go and collect it! Agree about the US,, India china, we're happy to get fossil from these countries. If you kill off the cows, what happens to the farmers, they cannot all go over to arrible. They don't actually cause much methane. We can see a wind farm,no wind they are not moving, heavy winds turned off.man will adapt,there's been ice ages in the past..

Something that's getting my goat at the moment on these cold frosty mornings is seeing people drench their cars in de-icer, then sit inside with the engine running till it's cleared. Where do they think all the chemicals end up. And the empty aerosols. Lazy buggers.
I know this thread is rather more highbrow than my moans but it seemed more appropriate to rant here than elsewhere.
OK, rant over.

I don't have a car and I'm vegetarian but I'd never judge others including those with massive SUVs. I don't buy endless crap made in China but only because I can afford not to. I also take over 40 flights a year for business and pleasure and no, I don't feel guilty nor do I believe that me changing my behaviour will make any difference in the grand scheme of things and even if it did I wouldn't be willing to stop flying. I believe climate change is a real issue but it's also very complex and nuanced, and unlikely to ever be solved / reversed in our lifetimes sadly. We can't turn back the clock and small sacrifices at an individual level won't have much, if any, impact, so let people live their lives in the meantime. Yes, people are inherently selfish and put their own families first, myself included, but it's naive to think that will change or that you yourself are not guilty of it.

This raises an interesting thought. Would “we” say overall that the cost of people cycling or walking in terms of a higher risk and a few more injuries and deaths is worth paying for reducing climate change?

clearly no one is going to choose that cost for themselves but maybe overall it’s one “we” should take?

Individuals will not make choices that are best for society, they choose what is best for themselves. Generally, of course there are exceptions.

thats why change has to be decided on by society as a whole and enforced. People don’t like the thought of banning things or taxing things but those are the 2 main weapons we have.

I thought I would share wikis entry in the light/bright/dark greens typology, which I find very interesting. You might too OP

Dark greens, light greens and bright greens
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Alex Steffen describes contemporary environmentalists as being split into three groups, dark, light, and bright greens.[10]
Light Green
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Light greens see protecting the environment first and foremost as a personal responsibility. They fall into the transformational activist end of the spectrum, but light greens do not emphasize environmentalism as a distinct political ideology, or even seek fundamental political reform. Instead, they often focus on environmentalism as a lifestyle choice.[10] The motto "Green is the new black" sums up this way of thinking, for many.[11] This is different from the term lite green, which some environmentalists use to describe products or practices they believe are greenwashing, those products and practices which pretend to achieve more change than they actually do (if any).
Dark Green
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In contrast, dark greens believe that environmental problems are an inherent part of industrialized, capitalist civilization, and seek radical political change. Dark greens believe that currently and historically dominant modes of societal organization inevitably lead to consumerism, overconsumption, waste, alienation from nature and resource depletion. Dark greens claim this is caused by the emphasis on economic growth that exists within all existing ideologies, a tendency sometimes referred to as growth mania. The dark green brand of environmentalism is associated with ideas of ecocentrism, deep ecology, degrowth, anti-consumerism, post-materialism, holism, the Gaia hypothesis of James Lovelock, and sometimes a support for a reduction in human numbers and/or a relinquishment of technology to reduce humanity's effect on the biosphere.
Contrast between Light Green and Dark Green
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In The Song of the Earth, Jonathan Bate notes that there are typically significant divisions within environmental theory. He identifies one group as “light Greens” or “environmentalists,” who view environmental protection primarily as a personal responsibility. The other group, termed “dark Greens” or “deep ecologists,” believes that environmental issues are fundamentally tied to industrialized civilization and advocate for radical political changes. This distinction can be summarized as “Know Technology” versus “No Technology” (Suresh Frederick in Ecocriticism: Paradigms and Praxis).
Bright Green
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More recently, bright greens emerged as a group of environmentalists who believe that radical changes are needed in the economic and political operation of society in order to make it sustainable, but that better designs, new technologies and more widely distributed social innovations are the means to make those changes—and that society can neither stop nor protest its way to sustainability.[12] As Ross Robertson writes,
[B]right green environmentalism is less about the problems and limitations we need to overcome than the "tools, models, and ideas" that already exist for overcoming them. It forgoes the bleakness of protest and dissent for the energizing confidence of constructive solutions.[9]
Some have included open source technology as part of this new approach.[13][14][15]

I think its easy for some people critise and pretend like they are doing the work while others can't be bothered. I could sit on my high horse but my choices are mainly driven by economics, I use second hand electronics, buy second hand furniture, buy clothes from the charity shop, don't fly very much, have a second hand electric car, don't really buy random stuff, don't over buy food, don't eat meat(because I don't like it). I haven't looked into my carbon footprint but I'm guessing it's pretty low. If I had more money would I be less likely to buy everything second hand and buy more things on a whim? I'm not sure so I try not to judge those who do.

I don't have a car and we are veggie.

Carbon footprints in the UK are far, far higher than those of people in India or the African countries. I do my bit.

I feel bad driving my kids to their childminder and school because it's not thaaaat far and we could cycle (too far to walk) BUT lots of angry bike hating drivers make me feel like I'd be stupid to put my kids in harms way for the sake of cycling over driving. Id love one of those cargo bikes that they have lots of in the Netherlands. No public transport, so it's drive or walk or cycle.

OP YABU,

Nothing short of returning to a premodern lifestyle is going to fix the issue of climate change. And it's probably too late anyway. Its simply not going to happen.

talk to China.
What we do here is a drop in the ocean.

You're not wrong but I think we need to blame governments more than individuals

As long as mass transport in this country is so rubbish and expensive, people will drive

It’s really heartbreaking but agree that green choices can be economically difficult to the point of unviability for many. It’s not just trains, or electric vehicles (which truly, pose their own issues), but heat pumps (how much to install?!), organic food, even bloody decent quality clothing which cuts down on need for frequent replacements / fast fashion.

There needs to be a major re-set, carrots and sticks, and it does need to come from the top as well as individual efforts.

It scares me that one of the wealthiest cities in the world has been partially consumed by an inferno and yet it does not look set to be the giant wake up call one might have hoped.

You're fighting a loosing battle op. Most people dont really care enough to make any drastic changes to their lifestyle. Too many people in the world all wanting too much. Life is hard work even in the uk for most of us. The climate summits are a farce. They achieve very little. Business & Profit margins will always come first.

It's more about the country you're having the children in. Many African countries have very small carbon footprints but high birth rates.

My family with three children that is very good by British standards is probably terrible compared to a family with 6 kids in some other countries.

YANBU,,,,but has someone with a discovery sport pissed you off by any chance

Population decrease may help. I’m listening to an excellent piece on generative AI rn and managing need for workforce plus decrease could coexist

Most populations ARE falling though, birth rates in many countries are in rapid decline.

The only thing that will make any difference to climate change is less people. If the population fell by several Billion, then the environment would recover. But thats not going to happen…so might as well book the overseas holiday and drive a nice car!

That wound me up too. It's like when people complain that women are driving their children to school. Is that because men driving their children to school isn't a problem or is it because men are all driving to big important places where you can't ride a bike.

Add in all the threads about throwing out food that is past its best before date. According to a UN report issued in March 2024, one billion meals per day were wasted in 2022 while 783 million people were affected by hunger and 1/3 of the world's population faces food insecurity. It's shocking.

Theres a huge disconnect though, me making soup from slightly over vegetables won’t put food on a table thousands of miles away. So people don’t think of their food wasting connection with local or global poverty. The distribution of resources is a real issue.

I’m particularly amazed at friends who massively over bought food in the run up to Christmas who then binned all of the sweets, treats, cheese etc two days into the new year rather than use it up over time. They all started a new year health kick and didn’t want the food in temptations way. And it’s every year, so they never restrict their buying even though half of it will end up in the bin.

YANBU but I get why it happens - I'm guilty of it myself.

Part of the problem is that we've been raised in a system specifically designed to keep us consuming more and more. If we all stopped buying stuff and using carbon-intensive services (the internet included), our whole system would collapse. And it's the only system we've ever known.

In a way I would love to go and live in a yurt (a well-insulated yurt) and grow my own vegetables. But I also wouldn't, because I like Korean makeup and sushi and foreign holidays and all the other luxuries that our global economy has urged upon me.

It's a big ask, to expect people to change the consumption mindset that has been a part of the air they breathe their whole lives - although I agree it's necessary.