I am really scunnered having to parent adult children.

You really really need to take a step back. At the moment all the worry and support isn't actually changing or helping the situation anyway.
Work on yourself, he is his own person. He might mess it up but then again he might not.
Invite him around for dinner once a week or go out for a coffee but stop trying to control every aspect of his life. He might surprise you if you back off for a while.

I'm sorry op but I think it's a really bad idea if he moves home at 33 years old. What on earth will extending his adolescence or semi-dependence on you actually achieve?

You have an opportunity to draw a line in the sand right now.

Paying his mortgage won't help either.

You've already got him a job and he has scuppered that. Now is his opportunity to find a job he likes and is engaged in.

I say this as a parent of an adult child with autism. I am the same age as you too. Anything could happen to us, and our health, and we are not doing our adult children any favours at all by allowing them to rely on us and not stand on their own two feet, which will ultimately bring them fulfilment and a bit of pride in themselves.

Children who are ND do take longer to reach maturity and independence but allowing him to give up and become more dependent on you isn't going to teach him anything.

I have the greatest of sympathy with him if he is depressed and his executive function is suffering as a result, and as a result of his ADHD, but he needs to try and help himself at least to find strategies to manage his life. Take ADs perhaps? Get assessed. Assess his daily routine. Eat well. Sleep well etc. Get in to a good routine where he can make changes in his life.

Op you were parentified as a child and because you didn't want this to happen to your children; you've gone too far the other way. And you are continuing this pattern now and sorry to say but this over involvement in your sons' lives could be actively harming them.

Can you examine yourself honestly to see if part of you doesn't actually get a kick and some fulfillment in being needed by everyone all of the time? It's not a crime but lots of people like to be needed.

Sorry to say this op but when you mention that you supported your therapist, all sorts of alarm bells rang in my head.

I had a relation of mine say this to me once and suffice to say his image of himself as the caring, rounded, put upon keystone of the family on whom everyone depended, was very far from the reality of who he is.

He actually is quite a needy person himself. I'm not saying this applies to you at all but please consider the possibility that part of you does get something from this over-interdependence with your adult DCs and looking after the therapist was a convenient way of diverting attention away from any issues you may have. A good defense system.

I know you have started this thread saying you want to be free of responsibility but are you sure you are not giving mixed signals to your YA DC? Finding jobs for all three of them in the first place is fairly unusual surely?

Op I can understand your anguish leaving a YA in their early to mid twenties to soldier on alone when they are struggling, but a young man of thirty-three? Really?

In your shoes I think I would announce that you are going away to stay with family for a while, if your job permits, and leave them all to it. You probably will find that they get on reasonably well once they know you are not there as a fall back option.

Edited to say: have just read your update about the ADs. That is a good sign.

This is a good sign @iceandwine as he’s taking responsibility for his own mental health.

As other have said, given your experiences, it’s totally understandable that you try to fix everything and keep everyone on an even keel, but ultimately, adults have to deal with what life throws at them. Be supportive and make suggestions, but that’s all you can do.

Re. Anxiety/panic attacks. In addition to medication, he may benefit from some counseling, rather than speaking to you about his anxiety. I’m diagnosed with GAD and realize that my family/friends can’t really help me, because they’re not mental health professionals. All it does is worry them! Counseling and medication are more effective, IME.

I really understand your complete exhaustion with it all, and the dilemma you are faced with because of your poor DB.

I think you have to follow your instincts and watch out for him to a degree particularly if he is depressed.

I think for his wellbeing you’ve got no choice but to guide him, but make sure it’s not you doing all the legwork, so that he learns how to be independent. I know you’ve had enough and I don’t blame you.

OMG! I can't believe I'm actually reading common sense on MN! Good to know I'm not the only one who believes this!

Try reading Dr. Meg Jay's books. I think they could help you understand how not succeeding without you is creating this belief that he can't do hard things. It's not just about 'tough love', but facing challenges is required for his development and he doesn't seem to have a lot of that.

What?! This is a grown man who isn't getting his shit together. Why should the OP give up a day to do his life laundry?

Any middle aged guy who needs mummy to come and apply for jobs for him is unlikely to succeed in said job even if he were to get it.

OP, I would have a frank conversation with him that you are concerned about him, and you're going to leave him to it but you want him to take it seriously even if just for your sake.

@mathanxiety Rent is an option if buying is not.

So you would rather his rent money was paid into the pocket of a crooked landlord instead of paying money into his own family? Yes, good idea.

But he didn't have to rent, and he didn't have to have a massive salary to buy.

A massive salary is needed to buy, because homes are many times more expensive than the average salary. Is that not what I just explained in my previous post?

He still owns his own home.

No he doesn't. He has a mortgage on his home.

As thanks to his mother for finding a good deal on the property in this dire housing market, he sulks about being "forced out" of her home - at 29 no less.

Understandable, given how high the cost of living is. I imagine this man does not have a mumsnet salary.

I have a friend whose husband went out pulling pints and doing deliveries when the company he worked for hit a rough patch and let people go. My friend went out cleaning. He worked seven days a week and she worked six.

Well done to your friends for doing normal things that other people do during rough patches. What's so significant about working 6 or 7 days a week? That's what everyone else already does.

This man has it better than the vast majority of 30 year olds, but all he does is whinge and sulk.

He could have depression. Please have more compassion.

Everyone is different and a lot of people struggle with ND and/or their MH. From what OP has said her DS has some issues. It does make things more difficult. Things are just easier for some people in that regard. Not everything is about finances, or education or parenting. Good MH is hugely important and not everyone has it. And the OP spoke of severe anxiety and panic attacks, not whinging and sulking, just fyi.

One of my children has autism and MH issues. Obviously he has the same background as his siblings but he struggles with life so much more. You can give someone opportunities but they need to be able to take them and not everyone has that capacity or they don’t always have it.

It really doesn’t matter if you think they should be able to do something or not.
Sometimes people can’t and they need help and will sink without it. Not swim.

I have adhd, and before I was diagnosed I did think I was lazy, but now I understand myself better I realise that I have to put enormous effort into some things and I find some things that other people find difficult quite straightforward. So for me having a shower and sorting the laundry is a mammoth task, but at work I am really productive. My mental health is much better since my diagnosis, because I’m able to manage my stress levels and energy and generally be kinder to myself.

I am perfectly capable of organising my jobs and finances though (although having adhd definitely has a cost to it).

You sound like my mum, she also had a traumatic childhood where she fixed everything, that was her role in the family and her mother’s expectation of her. She also tried therapy once and concluded it wasn’t for her due to a bad experience. And she also does too much for her ds. I think it’s co-dependent, she knows he should be independent but she feels she knows best and needs to step in. When she has decided to step away he is also able to step up, but he always goes to her for every problem and she always fixes it.

I don’t know what the answer is, but I do think putting boundaries in place is desirable. It sounds like he is currently in crisis, and that’s tough on everyone I hope it gets better soon.

Rent is an option if buying is not.

But he didn't have to rent, and he didn't have to have a massive salary to buy. He still owns his own home. As thanks to his mother for finding a good deal on the property in this dire housing market, he sulks about being "forced out" of her home - at 29 no less.

Getting your own job (or two) is also an option.

He has bills. He has food costs. He knows this, yet he has been let go from his job - the job his mother found for him - and hasn't been proactive in looking for another one. I have a friend whose husband went out pulling pints and doing deliveries when the company he worked for hit a rough patch and let people go. My friend went out cleaning. He worked seven days a week and she worked six.

This man has it better than the vast majority of 30 year olds, but all he does is whinge and sulk.

Neither did the OP’s son, at 26.
And not all ND people are the same, amazingly.

Yes, OP did notice he was different from his brothers.

She’s also mentioned months of severe anxiety, panic attacks and so on. He could well be lazy, but that doesn’t necessarily mean he has no additional needs.

OP wants him to he independent and she is not like this with his brothers, so I don’t think it’s as simple as mummy is pandering to him. She doesn’t want to, she feels she needs to and there’s probably more than one reason for this.

Also to say, the pysch worked because I chose to go, and I really wanted to get better.

If you just make him go, or he feels like he has to it won't be as affective, but it may keep him away from harm for enough time for him to want to chose to get better.

If you can get iPlayer there is a great Louis Theroux episode called "Talking to Anorexia" where they explain this system of keeping people safe so they can at some point choose to live.

My parents didn't give me a thing...I got my own job, own mortgage etc.

There is gold here. Your parents didn't do it all for you...you therefore had to stand on your own two feet and were independent. I'm the same!! You may have done your kids a disservice by doing it all for them as perhaps they've not had to stand in their own two feet yet.

Ignore the mean comments on here. It sounds like your son is experiencing clinical depression. The low mood, helplessness, trying to find a diagnosis were all my experiences before I realised I had clinical depression.

I found medication worked for a short period, enough to get me to a pyschologist. After that the depression lifted, but then the other mental health issues that the depression was hiding (Generalised Anxiety Disorder) returned, and it has taken a lot of work and persistence to untangle that, but it is possible and absolutely worth it.

As someone who has a ND diagnosis I agree, most of it is just normal human variation, strengths and weaknesses. We need to focus on workable strategies for people to learn to cope rather than using a diagnosis as a cop out excuse. Obviously it does depend on the severity and so on but most people who are ND are able to manage and have been doing so since forever.

This particular man might not even have ADHD, won't go for assessment. He's also 33. Over involved mum would have noticed he had ADHD long before he left home at 29.

I am aware people have different needs. Also aware lazy men won't change while mummy is pandering to them.

you’re way too involved in his life. ADHD or not (given it’s not diagnosed and he doesn’t want to seek a diagnosis im not sure why pp are talking like it’s fact that he has it) he’s an adult. He shouldn’t have you turning up at his house because he doesn’t answer the phone, he needs to find his own job and sort his own bills, or at the very least ask for help, then you can get involved. Right now you’re paying for things, getting him jobs, helping him sort his home, then wondering why he isn’t acting like an adult.

You say you don’t want to be a fixer, but when people suggest stopping you deflect and justify and you seem to have done therapy (with a very unprofessional therapist) the same way. You need to actually reflect a bit.

This 1000%

(from a person with diagnosed adhd)

This. He's 33 for goodness sake!

I'm afraid that the more you pander to him and dig him out of his problems, the more he'll rely on you and the less he'll be able to sort things out for himself. How will he ever learn if he knows he can run to you to fix things?

My BIL has a very similar relationship with his mother. Also one of three brothers (my DH being the eldest, however him and the youngest know what the words personal responsibility mean).

She literally does everything for him, down to raising his own blooming children, because yes, as soon as he moved out of home in his mid-20s, he managed to get the 19 year old he'd been seeing for a month pregnant 🤦‍♀️

Sorry, have got a bit of a bee in my bonnet about people who take no responsibility for their own lives.

Some ND people do need significantly more support than others though. Just something to be aware of.