HELP! [Child rape gangs in Bradford]

THIS!!!

I feel one way of tacking this is identifying at risk girls, eg in a town where there is known gangs, or girls in care, and to educate them early in primary school.

If there are reports of the men outside a school or children’s home then quickly put a stop to it.

if the girls were protected the gangs would not target them. As it stands they know that no one cares about these girls.

In general, abuse is not linked to race or class or education.... Unfortunatelly, we have seen repeated rapes and abuses from all sorts. Epstein, Westein, the catholic church...
But, if there is an specific issue unfolding, with characteristics associated to race, religion, class, status... whatever, that gives us a clear pattern, we must talk about it openly. We need to point the finger to the specific issue, warn our children yet about this specifics. It is because this doubting and double checking and questioning so which leads to the fear of being accused of .... = inaction! Inaction in such a grievious matter
= harm to children.
First thing is to snap out of it and say it all. Otherwise people will keep quiet.

https://archive.ph/DYfsm

Article about Keighley

It’s not about looking at all abusers as a whole and then looking at their ethnicity to see which ethnicity abuses the most.

it’s about a specific issue - Pakistani men of mipuri origin acting in gangs to traffic and rape young poor girls in post - industrial towns.

Trump and Musk are not the issue.

The issue is that this abuse is still going on after the initial enquiry.

I thought that Alexus Jay had said that abusers were not more from one ethnicity than another, including those who have acted together? They all need firm treatment, but with no help from the pussy grabbing USA, and its websites which allow all sorts of vice to go on.

Many of the abusers are second generation Pakistani, they have been born and brought up in the UK.

For those who emigrated from Pakistani I’m sorry but I don’t buy your argument that the alien society is in some way an excuse.

These men came over from a highly misogynistic and uneducated part of Pakistan and saw their opportunity to abuse.

The comparison to a westerner moving to Kyoto is insane.

The problems have gone way beyond communities discussing what they want from each other.

You have also left out the other factors:

:incompetence in the councils , within the police and schools

Children in care not being protected

the liberal media giving sanitised accounts of the court cases.

I don't know. I don't think any of us can pull apart how much is culture, how much is them being male. I don't even like to think too hard about it as it upsets me as I have sons and wonder what can be weeded out by our culture with in our home vs the culture of the town/country/world we live in. For example do we think the rape culture/jokes etc make men want to rape or that an anti-rape culture stops men from doing the thing they would anyway?

I would say at least on the surface we've never been quite so overt in our condemnation of abusers in history, but it hasn't stopped anything at all. And it's discussed more widely, but we pick and choose the men that it's trendy to condemn. Russel Brand is a bad man this year. But he was doing it publicly for decades. Jimmy savile admitted as much in writing but did anyone give a shit until it became a news item.

If I'm completely honest I believe that most men in the right circumstances would rape or at the least behave in sexually abusive way if they believed there would be no one would know or that it would be condoned.

We need to make SA a crime in practice, not just in theory. Hand wringing in an inquiry about fears of looking racist won't fix anything. We need to crack down on the police. They need to be suitably trained and funded to investigate every claim and to know what victims look like, even when they're not the kind they see on TV. They shouldn't be allowed to any excuses for why they didn't investigate. I don't think it would happen though because the people who can make change are mostly men and they don't want it

Slight digression but those of us of a certain age who come from Bradford remember all too clearly the time when women and girls were told by the police and local authorities to stay home/never go out without a male escort if we wanted to avoid being dismembered by the Yorkshire Ripper. There was also the attitude that Sutcliffe’s first victims were unworthy and had it coming because they were prostitutes and only decent women should be mourned.
These were the attitudes of the time.

The attitudes of the police towards the grooming gangs were similar - with overt racial overtones. White “child prostitutes” (implying agency and a choice) choosing to “go with Asian men” and therefore even less worthy of protection than the Ripper’s first victims.

Fortunately some attitudes have changed - although we still hear victims being blamed in rape cases. But I am deeply suspicious of suspicious of anyone suggesting that British women should change their behaviour to accommodate the views of “community elders”. These are exactly the kind of views that have led to Afghan women being virtually incarcerated inside their windowless homes to avoid stirring up male lust.

"I think what’s needed is a coming together of community elders on one side, and Labour councillors from these towns and cities on the other, and a proper hashing out of what we as a modern, multicultural society expect from one another, in order to solve any issues that there might be."

Could you explain a bit more what you mean by this? You think we should open a dialogue with the rapists' communities to see what we should do differently in order to not be raped? If they say they expect us to wear more 'modest' clothing, do you think we should agree in order to try to maintain a "modern, multicultural society"? What about if they say they want us to ensure women and girls are not allowed out unchaperoned? Would it be worth considering, in order to maintain a "modern, multicultural society"?

My rapist was white. He has never been convicted because I didn't pursue it because I don't have faith in the justice system. I would absolutely 100% back a public enquiry into the reasons for that.

This doesn't mean that there shouldn't be action and further enquiry into what led the police and others to turn a blind eye on groups of Muslim Pakistani men torturing and raping children because they were fearful of being deemed racist.

I just cannot for the life of me see how it helps 'community adhesion' to brush over this. If anything creating a sacred caste by ignoring it will increase hostility not reduce it.

It enables the far right to poke the bear.

Exactly. Also a rape survivor.

'd put money on most posters here being against an inquiry into why white rapists never seem to be caught and convicted?

This is just silly. Do better.

Seriously! This has to be one of the most pathetic posts on this thread.

You didn’t notice anything “untoward” on one visit so you’re not sure what to believe? Give your head a wobble FFS.

The majority of rapists in this country are white. I'd put money on most posters here being against an inquiry into why white rapists never seem to be caught and convicted?

Why?

My rapist was white. He has never been convicted because I didn't pursue it because I don't have faith in the justice system. I would absolutely 100% back a public enquiry into the reasons for that.

This doesn't mean that there shouldn't be action and further enquiry into what led the police and others to turn a blind eye on groups of Muslim Pakistani men torturing and raping children because they were fearful of being deemed racist.

I just cannot for the life of me see how it helps 'community adhesion' to brush over this. If anything creating a sacred caste by ignoring it will increase hostility not reduce it.

It enables the far right to poke the bear.

One thing I would pull you up on however is the blank slate approach that you hold all men accountable for, when culture does play a part in men’s attitudes towards women.

White British men, we know that they are over represented in statistics on sex based violence. Now why is that? It has to be culture surely? What is it about British culture that makes white British men more dangerous than any other national/ethnic group?

I'd like millions of pounds to be funnelled into stopping it for good.

You will lose your job if you are found to ignore abuse. If you take part in abuse. If you commit DV. Start with the police and move to all jobs of responsibility. Make it actually mean something.

It's exactly that. There is a thread that pops up frequently on MN about women who "dated" much older men as teens. And how they now realize how disgusting it was that it was ignored by their family, friends and schools! They'd get collected by men from school. White English men. It boggles the mind. But it's always happened and it always will. The police won't care because they're a part of the problem too.

Asian, white, black. There's one thing they all have in common.

It's only whataboutery if you think Asian men are the real problem in this country and not just another small subset of a problem of male on female violence. Do you? I don't.

Some of us have longer memories and remember when in 2015 the same people blaming brown people now, were blaming Eastern Europeans for running the rape gangs.

The same Eastern Europeans are still here (Brexit changing literally nothing) but suddenly they're not in the news now. Did Brexit make them change their minds on raping, or did Farage and the rest change the scape goat?

The majority of rapists in this country are white. I'd put money on most posters here being against an inquiry into why white rapists never seem to be caught and convicted?

I know that in Bradford this was happening in the early 1990s. What I find difficult to understand is the reluctance of people to name the main perpetrators of sexual abuse and exploitation as men. There is reluctance to imagine the men known to you might regularly visit prostituted women and girls,or subscribe to website talking about drugging and raping their partners(70000 in Germany recently) or regularly harass girls on the streets. Women don’t want to see this as it is just too frightening.
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For me, it’s up to the current government to sort this issue out. Is it Labour’s fault? No. But they inherited this broken country and they need to get to to work mending it before things get out of hand.

What I think needs to happen is this

1. set up a task force to deal with CSE nationwide, with no specific agenda in mind but to go after anyone who deals in the abuse of children.
2. Silence the bad faith actors who are using this issue to spread fear and hate. Prosecutions, freezing bank accounts, shutting down social media sites (basically X) whatever it takes really.
3. Commission positive & inspirational stories for broadcast television that goes into showing the life of Pakistani heritage people in this country, how they live and interact on a daily basis.

It would be like hundreds of English families being transported to Kyoto in Japan and then left to their own devices

I doubt this would lead to widespread abuse of children by English families or their Japanese hosts.

I think what’s needed is a coming together of community elders on one side, and Labour councillors from these towns and cities on the other, and a proper hashing out of what we as a modern, multicultural society expect from one another, in order to solve any issues that there might be.

Are you really that naive? The community elders and Labour councillors in these towns are often the same people. This is precisely why local enquiries are likely to result in more cover-ups.

Because it's whataboutery @HettysHandbag. Yes, all men rape. You are deflecting from the need for a proper inquiry into this specific group of cases. Sometimes we need to focus on patterns. Like Catholic priests, or TV presenters. This is a pattern. Practically every city or large town in the North of England had a brutal rape and pimping gang from a specific community preying on tween and teenage girls. Yes, misogyny is the overwhelming reason why they did it and why so many people looked the other way or abetted them. But some of the reason why no one would intervene was the race issue. People who did try to, like Ann Cryer or Sarah Champion MP or journalists like Andrew Norfolk who broke the story in the Times in 2011 were smeared as racists. Even Sir Trevor Philips, the former chair of the EHRC, was suspended from the Labour Party over comments he made about it.

I'm not going to discuss this further with you, you clearly aren't all that well informed and can do your own research. Start with Louise Casey's 2015 government mandated inquiry into Rotherham Council where among many problems, she found that

• both members and officers lack the confidence to tackle difficult issues for fear of being seen as racist or upsetting community cohesion

www.gov.uk/government/speeches/report-of-inspection-of-rotherham-metropolitan-borough-council