To agree with this article on flaking

Another change in the last 20 or so years is that it's much easier to have your entertainment come to you - stream just about anything at the touch of the button, order from a huge range of food and drinks (not just phoning your local takeaway) and of course, social media to keep you 'company',

@ByGreenBiscuit

I’d not thought of it from a misogynistic pov but you are right - it’s the perfect control mechanism. It also does seem to be mostly women that are talking about self-care and wanting to stay home to do face masks and bake?!

I'm not sure its explicitly misogynistic, although its definitely a useful control lever for controlling men, but it feels like a bit of a backlash against the 90s and 00s when young women really embraced socialising. That was the generation of Sex in the City, Desperate Housewives, the tail end of the ladette movement etc. All celebrating the idea of young women being single, financially independent and sexually licentious. There's lots wrong with this obviously, but it was at least outward-looking and optimistic.

The current mood seems much more inward-looking: people seem much more loathe to go out and almost suspicious of the idea of young people having a laugh with other young people. There are threads on here every day from people posting about how much they dread going to their work party or a hen party or whatever and seemingly wanting to embrace time spent at home with their spouse and children and eschew everything else. And of course the dreadful Trad Wife stuff and the cleaning influencers and all the rest of it.

This is probably in large part due to money: people are much poorer than they were 20 years ago and going out is prohibitively expensive. But it also feels like a reaction against "too much" freedom and it feels quite gendered.

The post about @ByGreenBiscuit‘s niece made me realise something else: a lot of this ”announcing self-care” and dropping out at the last minute because [insert flake reason here] all seems very attention seeking and demanding to be the centre of attention.

This is true I think.
I'm a bit older and don't really recognise the flakey thing as having got worse. My ex is the only flakey person I know.
I think the older version of this was the friend who was always very late. Like half an hour or more. I have several of these. You have to plan so you're not reliant on them otherwise it's extremely annoying.

I do think too much phone use is an easier but ultimately less rewarding way to spend time. Those who grew up with constant phone use probably have differently wired brains in terms of valuing friendships.

Totally. Most of them are just people who are very bad at making friends and have convinced themselves they "hate people" or "don't need people" because the truth is too painful to face.

Actual introverts are a completely different species.

@SevenWeeks I don't think anyone is judging people who decline invitations, people can do what they like. Its more the "Oh I really wanted to come but I was feeling really drained and tired after a hard week at work and I needed the self care, I'm an introvert and I need ten hours of sleep and find being around people really draining," kind of thing.

Which used to be frowned upon but these days seems to be tolerated or actively encouraged because "introversion". And "self care".

Yes, exactly. And I think 'losing your social muscle' is actually a good way of thinking about it, in the sense that we acknowledge that muscle loss is a bad thing physiologically, and exercise is necessary to keep muscles active. The same is absolutely true of social muscle -- use it or lose it. And if you have lost it, whether because of Covid, illness, bereavement or whatever, of course the first few times you start socially exercising again are going to be difficult because you've lost fitness. So start small and be realistic, but don't stop because it feels 'uncomfortable' or 'too hard'.

It ends up "damaging" genuine introverts.

Most MN posters who claim they are introverts aren't. They are either socially anxious or just dislike socialising.

Introverts love seeing their friends, but need time to wind down between social events. That's all.

I'm not a flaker BUT I am someone who absolutely hates making plans, very far in advance.

It also puts me off people. I just want to do what I feel like doing that day, unless it's a very important thing - like a birthday or a wedding.

I prefer a couple of days notice or max a week for stuff like a dinner or lunch or coffee.

Unless of course you need to book tickets bla bla bla.

But for something like a simple lunch or dinner, I prefer just to see if friends are free a few days before. Yeah, I know often people aren't free a few days before, but I'll take the chance. I hate being all booked up. There's nothing worse for me.

If they're dropping out at the last minute, absolutely. But people shouldn't be judged at a societal level for declining invitations in a timely way, whatever the reason. I say 'at a societal level' meaning that, of course, it's reasonable for an individual, say, to judge a friend who never wants to meet up, and act accordingly.

@ByGreenBiscuit

I completely agree about the cultishness.

The "introversion" cult seems to have really taken off after COVID (which is logical because many people lost their social muscle). But there's a misogynistic undertow to the idea that its preferable to retreat into the family and eschew the pleasures of socialising with other people. The "my little family" thing is really sinister. It gives me the chills when people post about this.

@SevenWeeks

It's annoying that the article doesn't distinguish clearly between flaking as a habitual behaviour, and being an introvert. I don't think introverts are more flakey than anyone else - if anything, an introvert is more likely to know their limitations and decline invitations as soon as they are offered.

That's completely true, but the problem is that a lot of people have used "introversion" (which usually isn't true introversion) as a cover story for flakiness so a lot of us have been quite cynical listening to people bang on about how they can't do anything because of their introversion.

@BrightYellowDaffodil

Throw in stuff like "sleep-maxxing" (where the concept is to optimise one's sleep so that you're always fully rested, but ends up with people living their lives round sleep) and "self care" it seems like life is being lived...for what? To be rested and cocooned but never actually do anything.

So glad someone has said this. Its basically a pseudo scientific manifesto for being lazy and unmotivated. It is fetishisation of inertia. What's the point of all this "self care" if you have a meltdown at the works do because "too peopley".

You see all these threads about people who need 10 hours sleep a night or they "can't function". If you need 10 hours sleep a night (and excluding illness) it is very likely just because you have trained your body to need a load of sleep. Drop your sleep requirements and your body will adjust.

At risk of sounding like an old windbag I worry that this "self care" all makes people very lacking in resilience and is turning our society a bit decadent. If people fighting in WW2 or on the front lines in hospitals in COVID had needed ten hours sleep a night to function they would have come unstuck pretty quickly.

It's annoying that the article doesn't distinguish clearly between flaking as a habitual behaviour, and being an introvert. I don't think introverts are more flakey than anyone else - if anything, an introvert is more likely to know their limitations and decline invitations as soon as they are offered.

Some people on this thread are also failing to make the distinction. Quoting the thread about Disney-in-a-day and the races-as-a-vegan - neither of those posters are planning to drop out at the last minute, they're simply looking for advice on whether they should accept an invitation they won't enjoy for the sake of friendship.

Conversely, on another thread about what excuse to use to decline work drinks, advice was blithely given to use 'last minute illness or emergency' to drop out on the day.

Flakiness is shitty, but it's not the preserve of introverts - just as likely to be done by extroverts who get a better offer.

we have all started fetishising introversion

This. The sort of behaviour which 20 or 30 years ago was evidence of being crap or disorganised is now celebrated as "introversion". Either it gets wrapped up with lots of self-congratulatory psycho guff about "needing to recharge" or, worse still, is now the preserve of the professional "people haters" or the people who don't know anyone except "my little family" (but love shouting about it on social media)

People have started using "self-care" as the ultimate get out of jail free card to basically avoid having to do anything which they don't really want to do.

Yes sometimes going out in the rainy dark and getting a tube isn't what you feel like in January after a tough week at work. You do it for your friends (if you value them) or you will eventually lose them. If you're genuinely sick or struggling no one will hold it against you but the idea that its fine to just sit scratching your arse and looking at your phone for three hours because "self care" or "introversion" is childish.

I'm a massive introvert and I never, ever flake. However I am careful when booking stuff. I try to never book things two days in a row and to only agree if it's something I am fully committed to doing it. It's fine to say no to people and it's fine to say maybe, can I tell you on the day as not sure what else I've got on.