Happy couple without kids in the supermarket

@Theworldhasgonebananas As an addendum, just a word to the wise, I know it's the internet but it's still not a great look to imply that someone is exaggerating when they disclose details of an abusive childhood. Bit gaslighty. You'll no doubt say that wasn't your intention, but it is certainly the impression that this exchange has left me with. Compassion rarely makes a situation worse.

@Theworldhasgonebananas Well no one has to perform childcare on a permanent basis, do they? With the possible exception of parents of children with very complex needs. I would also question the assertion that the typical parent is actively parenting 24/7, 7 days a week. Some are, no doubt, but I'm sure many of those having a right old whinge about how tired they are and how childfree people couldn't possibly understand have support, breaks, childcare etc.

I think I'm going to cut my losses here because it's becoming apparent that, for whatever reason, you are determined not to credit my right to make this comparison from the standpoint of experience. I can't make you believe what I'm saying or my account of my own experience, and honestly, in the grand scheme, it's really not that important that you do. I maintain my point, though - parents, however you define that term, do not have a monopoly on tiredness, or worthiness or love or compassion or anything else, and the suggestion that they do is, to my mind, a harmful and offensive one.

@Theworldhasgonebananas Well no one has to perform childcare on a permanent basis, do they? With the possible exception of parents of children with very complex needs. I would also question the assertion that the typical parent is actively parenting 24/7, 7 days a week. Some are, no doubt, but I'm sure many of those having a right old whinge about how tired they are and how childfree people couldn't possibly understand have support, breaks, childcare etc.

I think I'm going to cut my losses here because it's becoming apparent that, for whatever reason, you are determined not to credit my right to make this comparison from the standpoint of experience. I can't make you believe what I'm saying or my account of my own experience, and honestly, in the grand scheme, it's really not that important that you do. I maintain my point, though - parents, however you define that term, do not have a monopoly on tiredness, or worthiness or love or compassion or anything else, and the suggestion that they do is, to my mind, a harmful and offensive one.

I remember being like that, Dh and I were them. I remember us having conversations about how we seemed more positive and happier than our friends or people at work and we wondered what was wrong with everyone.
It was that they had kids 🙈😆 that was it.

Anyone who wasn't happy or positive had kids... that's what you said.

According to you, someone with a child, even if the child is easy and the parents are not stressed by parenthood, they're automatically more tired than any childless person. Even those with chronic illnesses.

Such a lazy stereotype!

"Lighthearted" is the same as
"I don't meant to offend, but.... "

@Theworldhasgonebananas Thank you. It was a despicable burden to place on a young girl and I can't forgive her for it.

What I'm trying to make clear here is that it is the performance of the parental role that is the exhausting thing, and that I have personal experience of that that qualifies me to draw a comparison. It isn't the being a biological parent that's the crucial thing. Otherwise you'd have to argue that adoptive parents or stepparents etc can't relate to the exhaustion of parenting either, which would be a ludicrous suggestion I'm sure you'd agree.

@Theworldhasgonebananas Thank you. It was a despicable burden to place on a young girl and I can't forgive her for it.

What I'm trying to make clear here is that it is the performance of the parental role that is the exhausting thing, and that I have personal experience of that that qualifies me to draw a comparison. It isn't the being a biological parent that's the crucial thing. Otherwise you'd have to argue that adoptive parents or stepparents etc can't relate to the exhaustion of parenting either, which would be a ludicrous suggestion I'm sure you'd agree.

You also realise there are parents with easy kids, parents with help and parents who don't give their kids 100%.

Colleague's mum has her little ones twice a week overnight, she does switch off.

Have worked as a nanny where parents are away for two weeks a time, completely switched off with one or two check-in texts.

You might be tired and never switch off, it doesn't mean every single parent is the same.
Some cope better than others.

I've known people work 4 jobs to support their parents or siblings, trust me, they are tired.

Surviving on 4 hour sleep each night as a carer to a parent.

So many different situations where people are tired, parents or not.

Ex used to do a 8am - 5pm job, go for a nap and do 10pm - 5am. No idea how, but one thing for sure, he was always exhausted.

Not every child free person is doing 9-5 and putting their feet up.

Tiredness isn't reserved for parents only.

@Theworldhasgonebananas Funny. My mother seemed to find her off switch just fine all the years I was raising her kid . . .

Oh I've heard them all, don't worry. I'm a bloody veteran where it comes to being patronised by a certain kind of parent. Fortunately most of the parents I'm actually friends with don't go in for the histrionics.

@Theworldhasgonebananas I don't think you're understanding the scale of what I was doing, but that's OK. It'll have to suffice to say that I have experienced both and chronic illness can certainly be far and away more exhausting. If it isn't for you, then my hearty congratulations, but to assume everyone is that lucky is a mistake, and frankly a little ableist.

@Theworldhasgonebananas I had to get up every night for years with my baby sister, alongside keeping the house tidy and school. I now have a debilitating illness where no amount of rest dents the bone-deep exhaustion. I promise you, the latter is worlds harder. Parents don't have a monopoly on tiredness. Not at all. I know of what I speak.

They’re still allowed to be tired. Sorry but it really makes me see red when people assume only parents understand tiredness.