To think that Musk is now overstepping himself and the UK gvt should threaten action

Someone with dual citizenship can't be deported unless and until deprived of British citizenship first, and then made the subject of a deportation order.

Some of those convicted for the "grooming gangs" were dual nationals, and the SSHD did deprive some of British citizenship on the "conducive to the public good" ground. Some (or all, I don't know) of those deprived exercised their right of appeal against deprivation to the First Tier (Immigration & Asylum) Tribunal and some further appealed to the Upper Tribunal, but in all the reported cases I've seen they lost their appeals against deprivation of British citizenship.

Some in "grooming gangs" were also made the subject of deportation orders, I've seen reported cases about appeals in those cases too.

A few of the dual citizens appear to have renounced their Pakistani nationality; this would definitely significantly reduce the likelihood of deprivation of British citizenship, because (except under limited and particular circumstances) a person can't be deprived of British citizenship if the deprivation would leave him stateless; and if Pakistani citizenship had been renounced, then deprivation here would leave a person stateless.

There were at least two appeals relating to Defendants in grooming gang cases who renounced Pakistani citizenship in order to avoid deprivation. In that case the deprivation orders were in prospect at the time of deprivation so the Upper Tribunal held that the Appellants hadn't proved deprivation would render them stateless. There's reference to another Defendant who renounced Pakistani citizenship earlier and that was a successful tactic, the SSHD didn't make a deprivation order.

The fact that the MSM covered it up is disingenuous. The story was broken by the Times, covered by the BBC, most major newspapers, had several public inquiries and was featured in several documentaries. Starmer as DPP in conjunction with the TV overturned the CPS decision not to prosecute due to the inconsistencies with the stories of the girls involved and the failure to obtain a conviction due to this fact. There have been failures during all governments involved, sometimes due to cultural sensitivity, sometimes due to the practicality of mounting an expensive prosecution (at a time when CPS funds have been cut) when the chances of success are slim due to unreliable witnesses or failures by the police due to feeling that they would be accused of racism. But there has been an inquiry and the recommendations have been slow to be implemented. This is an ongoing issue and not something that Musk has just discovered and put on the agenda. The wheels of government and society are slow. see how the cladding scandal after Grenfell are still playing out. This does not mean that this is being covered up. This is a sad fact of government and also of inaction by the Tories who wanted to seem like they were doing something but kicked any legislation into the long grass due to the cost and complexity of action.

There is an issue with a small section of the Pakistani community at the lower rungs of society who want to satisfy their lust by exploiting young girls because they are forced into cultural arranged loveless marriages. This has been extensively investigated and steps are being taken to prosecute and address these issues. Not due to the tweets of the far right and trolls but because the government are taking appropriate steps at the speed at which government moves. The agenda of government should not be privy to the whims of trolls and self seeking football hooligans. This should be done at the behest and in support of the victims and issues that are best understood by the people involved and with their consultation. This unfortunately is not simple, unlike internet trolls like to say.

internet Trolls have no understanding of what is happening in the UK and are only using the situation for political capital and is only tweeting in support of racist football hooligans, who have been jailed for contempt of a British court for nearly collapsing an abuse case against the interest of victims. They do not care about the victims or justice but solely to amplify their political agenda or for lolz and to spread chaos. We also have political leaders in this country playing into the hands of internet trolls and giving them airtime, little realising that all they are doing to spreading chaos before moving on to their next area of chaos. This is not in the best interests of our society and we should shut them down and not give them airtime.

we need to prepare for the collapse of NATO, the spread of the war in Ukraine to most of Eastern Europe, the collapse of world trade, the fracturing of international detente and the rise of nations state, an imminent global recession, the exacerbation of the climate crisis and regional extreme weather patterns and foot shortages and the rise of regionalised wars. The government should not be swayed into reacting to trolls that sway public opinion towards the aims of billionaires to serve their own agenda.

@wholettheturnipsburn

Well it's not just some posters that have the view that "the government are following up the Jay recommendations because of musk?"

This is a quote today from Professor Jay who led the inquiry:

"I have heard very little in the last few days about the appalling and lifelong effects that child sexual abuse can have on people.

I am pleased that the subject matter and the inquiry recommendations are finally getting the attention they deserve but this is definitely not the way I would have chosen for it to happen, but it has had the effect of moving on the agenda."

So would you equally describe Professor Jay as naive for believing that the publicity Musk's posts have generated has had the effect of moving this issue up the agenda?

Of course they don’t but any excuse for a bit of new government bashing.

Do some posters really think that the government are following up the Jay recommendations because of musk?

Honestly, how naive.

Musk and X is already subject to fines from the EU following an investigation into the spread of disinformation and illegal content. There is also the suspicion that Musk artificially amplifies his own tweets, that the EU is looking into. So the UK may be able to stand back and let the EU fight this one.

I think the Germans may also be launching their own investigations following Musk's calls for Germans to vote for the far right Alternative for Germany party in the German elections.

Personally, I think he is using the shockingly awful UK child gooming cases and scandals to manipulate opinion. I don't think he gives a hoot about the scandal itself and the people involved in it. This is all just political games for him.

This is fairly common sense really because I always wonder why SM tries so hard to rile people up.

Partly for clicks, partly because if you become emotional and engage emotionally you are easily manipulated.

Child abuse is the last taboo in the West that we care about.

The actual crimes of these gangs can be weaponised. Smear your opponents and the lie is halfway around the world before the truth has its trousers on.

What exactly is the misinformation, he can't vote here, speech is free in America, some folks seem more shocked at what he says about some lefty grown ups than shocked at what was done to these girls. World turned upside down? We'll continually raped and tortured would pretty much obliterate their world.

but it only really works with the kind of mentality who swallow whatever they read wholesale instead of using it as a spur to look further into something that interests them

It's dangerous to underestimate the impact that can have on society. There are more people around like that than there are people who question what they read. This is how election (and referendum) outcomes are manipulated.

Read about "strategic lying" ( https://www.electionanalysis.uk/uk-election-analysis-2019/section-1-truth-lies-and-civic-culture/strategic-lying-the-new-game-in-town/ ) employed by Boris Johnsson amongst others. Also watch Dominic Cummings give a masterclass on manipulating public opinion ( ).

You just have to read this thread to see people frothing about this vote MPs made that never actually happened. It's incredibly niave to think that the owner of one of the largest social media platforms in the world does not have significant influence on public opinion thereby swaying the way people vote.

Labour are not minimising the crimes, they are implementing the recommendations.

The point is that Musk isn't raising awareness. He is distributing misinformation. To millions of people

I agree he's trying to, @bombastix, and much of Twitter is pure misinformation anyway, but it only really works with the kind of mentality who swallow whatever they read wholesale instead of using it as a spur to look further into something that interests them

I also agree he's playing silly games, fancies himself as some massive influence and doesn't actually give a damn about the victims, but I still think it's no bad thing for awareness to be raised - or at least for as long as folk stay interested

Couple of radio programmes.

1. File on 4 from October 2022 about a young woman caught up in a grooming gang. This also features Jess Philips who literally offered her shelter as a means of escape.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001cdts

Victims of grooming who are UK born seem to be unable to access help from modern slavery resources.

And about to start: in dark corners about the Peadophile information exchange who had hundreds of members in the 1980s in teaching and social services. The other side of this was the services who'd be presented with girls pregnant multiple times before 13 and send them away with 'affirming' care like more condoms because they were under the impression she was xploring her sexuality rather than being trapped

Inquiry. Not sure why people keep using Enquiry. Suggests they haven't read it or any proper source. After days of seeing this on MN it suggests these posters only get their info from SM

Labour were already putting the recommendations into action. Nothing to do with Musk.

The point is that Musk isn't raising awareness. He is distributing misinformation. To millions of people. Some of whom are likely to be unhinged enough to make threats to people like Jess Phillips on the basis she is some kind of rape apologist.

When you look at people who are caught harassing or trying to harm politicians in the UK they often draw on social media as part of their thinking.

We all have to think about what it might be like to be lied about and then that distributed on the internet. I know I would be frightened.

Those of us who have lived experience of surviving grooming, CSA and rape as girls, know exactly who is tackling child sexual abuse in these northern towns and who isn't. Not all of us were traumatised to the point that we are rendered incapable. There are a cohort of us who were lucky enough to not be submerged by it. I was very lucky to have the unearned privilege of a decent level of cognition, some economic privilege and being able to access higher education and it taught me about my vulnerabilities and the social determinants of health & wellbeing and how the system creates gaps for exploitation for girls like I used to be.

I healed through my education, alongside support from NAPAC, Rape Crisis, NHS Psychiatrists, ISVA's, IAPT, the police and Victim Support. I have since worked with girls and boys who are survivors of CSA and CSE (in children's social care, research and child and adolescent mental health services). I am about to go into a national team. Elon Musk knows nothing about the worker bees on the frontline, the evidence gathering in research, the policy action, the third sector input, the people wiping the tears and snot and telling survivors it's not their fault, the hand holding to ensure you don't drown, the police intelligence being gathered, the prevention that's happening right now. It's not perfect, it isn't completely resolved but we are a lot further forward than in 1996 when it started happening to me. Elon Musk, Tommy Robinson, Nigel Farage don't advocate for prevention, they look back and their red faced, spittle shouting outrage isn't changing anything - I know who is tackling and preventing CSA today, and tomorrow and next year. They don't need to write it on social media, they are just getting on with doing it.

This is why Musk is dangerous. How many people have seen this list and believe that it was about deporting rapists? How many people have now seen it posted on here and believe the same? I had to get to page 11 on this post before someone pointed out that it was fake/misinformation and I've gone through a few more pages (admittedly not all) and nobody has picked up on this.

Just to be clear. I have no problem with Musk shining a light on the issue of grooming gangs. Although none of the information is new news, the lack of interest from the public and the previous government has been astonishing, so it is good that people care. What is objectionable is the spread of misinformation, the incitement to hate, the apportioning blame where it doesn't belong. The current government are the ones who are acting on the recommendations and were doing so long before Musk got involved.

Yes of the 2.5 year delay in implementing the recommendations of the Jay inquiry, the Conservatives didn't do anything for 2 years and Labour nothing for the last 6 months

For 2 of those months, Parliament wasn't even sitting.

Legislation takes time.

This was an inquiry the Cons, rightly, commissioned, yet according to former cabinet minister Dorris, wasn't even discussed at cabinet.

Too much ping pong going on here.... Labour are acting and yes they could do more but at least they have made a start.

I’d trust this rather than the most right wing biased media outlet other than G B News. This government has done more about this in six months than the previous one ever managed. Remember Johnson’s delightful “spaffing against the wall” remark?

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/tackling-child-sexual-abuse

Yes

@BIossomtoes

"How is implementing the recommendations of the Jay report “minimising the crimes”? It was the Tory government that sat on the report for 2.5 years and did nothing. According to Nadine Dorries it never even appeared on the cabinet table."

What is minimising the crimes for political advantage is

Labour MP Simon Danczuk said he was warned by senior party figures not to mention the ethnicity or religion of grooming gang perpetrators due to concerns over electoral impact.

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/01/02/simon-danczuk-tony-lloyd-ex-labour-chairman-grooming-gangs/

Yes of the 2.5 year delay in implementing the recommendations of the Jay inquiry, the Conservatives didn't do anything for 2 years and Labour nothing for the last 6 months.

Exactly & its disappointing that people keep repeating the slurs against Labour, no recognition that they promised pre election to implement changes and are doing so.

How is implementing the recommendations of the Jay report “minimising the crimes”? It was the Tory government that sat on the report for 2.5 years and did nothing. According to Nadine Dorries it never even appeared on the cabinet table.

@JessaWoo

"Sure, but what is his motivation for doing so? It isn't likely that he has justice at heart. It's self-interest. He's playing around in British politics just like a digital puppeteer - it's working brilliantly, too."

Musk's motivation in highlighting these crimes is political, he is a supporter of right wing political parties and the global political shift to the right.

Similarly Labour's motivations in minimising these crimes is political. Publicity on these crimes and the lack of any implementation of the Jay inquiry is electorally damaging to the left and beneficial to the right as confirmed by Simon Danzuk, a former Labour MP.

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/01/02/simon-danczuk-tony-lloyd-ex-labour-chairman-grooming-gangs/

The grooming gang reports came out, nationally in in 1998, thats 27 years ago.

CSA more generally, has been known about for decades and not reported nationally but has been in more less well known publications but ignored by the MSM, just as Savilles crimes were known but ignored.

As for the Jay report recommendations, they were called for to be implemented by Yvette Cooper in opposition, when the report came out.

Pre Election, both LD's and Labour called again for them to be enacted and said they would once in power.

As i said earlier, nothing wrong with Musk raising this issue, what is wrong is stirring hate and division, endangering peoples lives, tweets still up and added too, calling for Starmer and JP to be killed.

Few condemn this, its all part of the cut n thrust of politics hey!