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To think that Musk is now overstepping himself and the UK gvt should threaten action

610 replies

Bogginsthe3rd · 07/01/2025 02:02

Musk has just posted this on twitter (among other unhinged tweets). To me this reads as a thinly veiled threat to democratically elected UK MPs and actually the UK government should consider sanctions to the US if he continues this attack when he enters the White House?

To think that Musk is now overstepping himself and the UK gvt should threaten action
OP posts:
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16
JHound · 08/01/2025 17:17

Clavinova · 08/01/2025 16:45

Keir Starmer blaming the Conservative government here of course - but I see that he doesn't challenge the 'campaigned' label from the question put to him;

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/politics/21810234/keir-starmer-refuses-to-apologise/

Presumably you think Starmer should have acted sooner with regards to grooming gangs as he served as Director of Public Prosecutions and head of the CPS from November 2008?

Who was in power during the time that deportation did not happen?

Clavinova · 08/01/2025 17:17

MargoLivebetter
I am not sure what you mean by Starmer blaming the Conservative Government.

From my link -
"You can't blame the opposition for the government's failures."

none of that means that any of them campaigned for a convicted rapist not to be deported

Alas, Starmer didn't challenge the idea that he 'campaigned' in his answer to the journalist.

I've already commented earlier on in the thread about Starmer's role at the CPS and the grooming cases. How is that connected with the 2020 deportations?

You asked me who was responsible for Fabian Henry not being deported when it was a Conservative government. I was making a comparison about responsibility. As head of the CPS from 2008, Starmer has to take some responsibility for CPS failures during that time.

MargoLivebetter · 08/01/2025 16:54

@Clavinova I am not sure what you mean by Starmer blaming the Conservative Government. The 2020 deportations were massively contentious, as I'm sure you will remember. Author Bernardine Evaristo, the model Naomi Campbell, historian David Olusoga not to mention a number of NGOs, dozens of solicitors and barristers, including 11 Queens Counsels, signed a letter saying the deportation flight was unlawful, unjust and racist. A number of Labour MPs also sent and signed a letter to the Home Secretary. However, none of that means that any of them campaigned for a convicted rapist not to be deported.

I've already commented earlier on in the thread about Starmer's role at the CPS and the grooming cases. How is that connected with the 2020 deportations?

Clavinova · 08/01/2025 16:45

MargoLivebetter · 08/01/2025 15:51

@Clavinova could you just clarify who was responsible for Henry Fabian not being deported in 2020 when there was a Conservative Government? I know that a group of Labour MPs wrote a letter raising concerns about some of the 2020 deportations but that is different from saying that Kier Starmer specifically campaigned for Henry Fabian not to be deported.

Keir Starmer blaming the Conservative government here of course - but I see that he doesn't challenge the 'campaigned' label from the question put to him;

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/politics/21810234/keir-starmer-refuses-to-apologise/

Presumably you think Starmer should have acted sooner with regards to grooming gangs as he served as Director of Public Prosecutions and head of the CPS from November 2008?

MargoLivebetter · 08/01/2025 15:51

@Clavinova could you just clarify who was responsible for Henry Fabian not being deported in 2020 when there was a Conservative Government? I know that a group of Labour MPs wrote a letter raising concerns about some of the 2020 deportations but that is different from saying that Kier Starmer specifically campaigned for Henry Fabian not to be deported.

Clavinova · 08/01/2025 15:46

EmmaMaria
NOT ONE OF THEM WAS A RAPIST

Fabian Henry was convicted of rape in 2013.

Clavinova · 08/01/2025 15:42

BIossomtoes · 07/01/2025 22:16

Thanks Clav. I particularly like this bit of the article

”The idea that a letter from MPs questioning process led to dangerous criminals going on to commit crime is as weak as this government’s running of the Home Office.”

The man in the Times headline (Fabian Henry) was sentenced to 12 years imprisonment in 2013 for raping a 17 year old girl and abducting/assaulting a 15 year old girl. It was reported elsewhere that when he abducted the 15 year old he tied her legs together and drove her off in his car. Henry was on the deportation flight in 2020 that Starmer and other MPs campaigned to stop - what do you 'particularly like' about that?

1dayatatime · 08/01/2025 14:28

@CovenOfCheeses

This is a quote today from Professor Jay who led the inquiry:

"I have heard very little in the last few days about the appalling and lifelong effects that child sexual abuse can have on people.

I am pleased that the subject matter and the inquiry recommendations are finally getting the attention they deserve but this is definitely not the way I would have chosen for it to happen, but it has had the effect of moving on the agenda."

So Prof Jay confirms that the publicity on this awful child sex abuse by Musk has had the effect of moving up the political agenda the implementation of the inquiry recommendations.

Would you also label Prof Jay as an internet troll or football hooligan? Or as Starmer said "far right"?

1dayatatime · 08/01/2025 14:22

@Alexandra2001

"So you persisted saying it wasn't in the bill, despite knowing it was going to be put into law..."

Err I'm persisting because it wasn't in the Bill published in December 2024. You can check for yourself if you don't believe me:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6769425bbe7b2c675de309bb/ChildrenssWellbeinganddSchoolsBilllPolicySummaryyNotes.pdf

The comment from Yvette Cooper about including criminal sanctions on professionals in any future legislation was only made yesterday and that was only because of the publicity and pressure generated by Musk's posts.

In short there is no misinformation on my part - the Bill of December 2024 does not include any of the recommendations from the Jay Report, something Prof Jay has said herself and given that she ran the inquiry I think it's safe to say her opinion carries more weight than either yours or mine.

CovenOfCheeses · 08/01/2025 14:09

CovenOfCheeses · 08/01/2025 12:07

The fact that the MSM covered it up is disingenuous. The story was broken by the Times, covered by the BBC, most major newspapers, had several public inquiries and was featured in several documentaries. Starmer as DPP in conjunction with the TV overturned the CPS decision not to prosecute due to the inconsistencies with the stories of the girls involved and the failure to obtain a conviction due to this fact. There have been failures during all governments involved, sometimes due to cultural sensitivity, sometimes due to the practicality of mounting an expensive prosecution (at a time when CPS funds have been cut) when the chances of success are slim due to unreliable witnesses or failures by the police due to feeling that they would be accused of racism. But there has been an inquiry and the recommendations have been slow to be implemented. This is an ongoing issue and not something that Musk has just discovered and put on the agenda. The wheels of government and society are slow. see how the cladding scandal after Grenfell are still playing out. This does not mean that this is being covered up. This is a sad fact of government and also of inaction by the Tories who wanted to seem like they were doing something but kicked any legislation into the long grass due to the cost and complexity of action.

There is an issue with a small section of the Pakistani community at the lower rungs of society who want to satisfy their lust by exploiting young girls because they are forced into cultural arranged loveless marriages. This has been extensively investigated and steps are being taken to prosecute and address these issues. Not due to the tweets of the far right and trolls but because the government are taking appropriate steps at the speed at which government moves. The agenda of government should not be privy to the whims of trolls and self seeking football hooligans. This should be done at the behest and in support of the victims and issues that are best understood by the people involved and with their consultation. This unfortunately is not simple, unlike internet trolls like to say.

internet Trolls have no understanding of what is happening in the UK and are only using the situation for political capital and is only tweeting in support of racist football hooligans, who have been jailed for contempt of a British court for nearly collapsing an abuse case against the interest of victims. They do not care about the victims or justice but solely to amplify their political agenda or for lolz and to spread chaos. We also have political leaders in this country playing into the hands of internet trolls and giving them airtime, little realising that all they are doing to spreading chaos before moving on to their next area of chaos. This is not in the best interests of our society and we should shut them down and not give them airtime.

we need to prepare for the collapse of NATO, the spread of the war in Ukraine to most of Eastern Europe, the collapse of world trade, the fracturing of international detente and the rise of nations state, an imminent global recession, the exacerbation of the climate crisis and regional extreme weather patterns and foot shortages and the rise of regionalised wars. The government should not be swayed into reacting to trolls that sway public opinion towards the aims of billionaires to serve their own agenda.

Starmer in conjunction with the CPS (not TV) damn autocorrect.

Alexandra2001 · 08/01/2025 14:07

1dayatatime · 08/01/2025 13:32

@Alexandra2001

"Yvette Cooper made a speech to Parliament yesterday in which she said:

Professionals who work with children will face criminal sanctions if they fail to report claims of child sexual abuse under a law to be introduced this year, Yvette Cooper has told MPs

You ought to know this but persist with spreading incorrect information."

This comment, which I welcome, by Yvette Cooper was only made yesterday, in part because of the publicity Musk's posts has raised moving the issue up the political agenda. This is not just my view but also the view of Professor Jay.

The Children's Wellbeing and Schools Bill published as recently as December 2024 makes no mention of "professionals who work with children will face criminal sanctions if they fail to report claims of child sexual abuse"

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6769425bbe7b2c675de309bb/ChildrenssWellbeinganddSchoolsBilllPolicySummaryyNotes.pdf

So something has happened between December 2024 and January 2025 that has made Yvette Cooper decide to include the recommendation of the Jay inquiry for "professionals who work with children will face criminal sanctions if they fail to report claims of child sexual abuse"

That something in my opinion is the publicity that the Musk posts have generated.

Please point out my incorrect information or misinformation.

So you persisted saying it wasn't in the bill, despite knowing it was going to be put into law...

That could be construed as mischievous, not that you'd do anything like that.

1dayatatime · 08/01/2025 13:32

@Alexandra2001

"Yvette Cooper made a speech to Parliament yesterday in which she said:

Professionals who work with children will face criminal sanctions if they fail to report claims of child sexual abuse under a law to be introduced this year, Yvette Cooper has told MPs

You ought to know this but persist with spreading incorrect information."

This comment, which I welcome, by Yvette Cooper was only made yesterday, in part because of the publicity Musk's posts has raised moving the issue up the political agenda. This is not just my view but also the view of Professor Jay.

The Children's Wellbeing and Schools Bill published as recently as December 2024 makes no mention of "professionals who work with children will face criminal sanctions if they fail to report claims of child sexual abuse"

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6769425bbe7b2c675de309bb/ChildrenssWellbeinganddSchoolsBilllPolicySummaryyNotes.pdf

So something has happened between December 2024 and January 2025 that has made Yvette Cooper decide to include the recommendation of the Jay inquiry for "professionals who work with children will face criminal sanctions if they fail to report claims of child sexual abuse"

That something in my opinion is the publicity that the Musk posts have generated.

Please point out my incorrect information or misinformation.

Echobelly · 08/01/2025 12:54

I think the best thing is to brush him off and say 'This country isn't governed by tweets'; trying to mount some sort of action would only gratify Musk's ego. What he hates is not being revered and feared.

Goldenbear · 08/01/2025 12:52

1dayatatime · 08/01/2025 12:39

@Goldenbear

"But she has also said that no new inquiry is needed didn't she?"

Yes she has on the grounds that she feels the Government should focus on implementing her urgent recommendations first before starting another inquiry, which I would fully agree with.

I also agree with her that the positive effect of Musk's X posts has been to generate publicity and move this issue up the political agenda to implement these urgent recommendations. But I guess in the opinion of Kier Starmer that would make her "far right" and in the view of previous posters "naive".

Has she said that she wants another inquiry following the implementation of her recommendations? What would the point of that be? I thought she said the time had passed for a lengthy examination?

BIossomtoes · 08/01/2025 12:51

Alexandra2001 · 08/01/2025 12:49

Yvette Cooper made a speech to Parliament yesterday in which she said:

Professionals who work with children will face criminal sanctions if they fail to report claims of child sexual abuse under a law to be introduced this year, Yvette Cooper has told MPs

You ought to know this but persist with spreading incorrect information.

She does know. It just doesn’t fit her agenda.

Lalgarh · 08/01/2025 12:49

Incidentally, the origin of most of these men convicted is actually far more specific than just "Pakistani". Most are from the Mirpur region of Pakistan/ Azad Kashmir

Alexandra2001 · 08/01/2025 12:49

1dayatatime · 08/01/2025 12:34

@BIossomtoes

"I think she failed to realise it was in the King’s speech in October."

Well that would be because it wasn't in the Kings Speech July 2024.

The Children’s Wellbeing
and Schools Bill that you are referring to does not implement the urgent recommendations of the Jay inquiry which were:

  1. Mandatory reporting of child sexual abuse
  2. National financial compensation scheme for abuse victims
  3. Creation of a Child Protection Authority

The Children's Wellbeing and Schools Bill does not implement any of those recommendations.

The closest it comes is creating a duty to share information for safeguarding and promoting children’s welfare.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6769425bbe7b2c675de309bb/ChildrenssWellbeinganddSchoolsBilllPolicySummaryyNotes.pdf

Yvette Cooper made a speech to Parliament yesterday in which she said:

Professionals who work with children will face criminal sanctions if they fail to report claims of child sexual abuse under a law to be introduced this year, Yvette Cooper has told MPs

You ought to know this but persist with spreading incorrect information.

Goldenbear · 08/01/2025 12:49

ilovesooty · 08/01/2025 12:33

"Lefty grown ups"?
I'm rather concerned by the risk of violence to MPs, such as Jess Phillips.

Yes, exactly, who would be an MP these days, particularly if you are a woman, I don't know why people are seemingly desperate for anarchy to replace democracy.

bombastix · 08/01/2025 12:40

Misinformation

1dayatatime · 08/01/2025 12:39

@Goldenbear

"But she has also said that no new inquiry is needed didn't she?"

Yes she has on the grounds that she feels the Government should focus on implementing her urgent recommendations first before starting another inquiry, which I would fully agree with.

I also agree with her that the positive effect of Musk's X posts has been to generate publicity and move this issue up the political agenda to implement these urgent recommendations. But I guess in the opinion of Kier Starmer that would make her "far right" and in the view of previous posters "naive".

1dayatatime · 08/01/2025 12:34

@BIossomtoes

"I think she failed to realise it was in the King’s speech in October."

Well that would be because it wasn't in the Kings Speech July 2024.

The Children’s Wellbeing
and Schools Bill that you are referring to does not implement the urgent recommendations of the Jay inquiry which were:

  1. Mandatory reporting of child sexual abuse
  2. National financial compensation scheme for abuse victims
  3. Creation of a Child Protection Authority

The Children's Wellbeing and Schools Bill does not implement any of those recommendations.

The closest it comes is creating a duty to share information for safeguarding and promoting children’s welfare.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6769425bbe7b2c675de309bb/ChildrenssWellbeinganddSchoolsBilllPolicySummaryyNotes.pdf

ilovesooty · 08/01/2025 12:33

Notaflippinclue · 08/01/2025 11:35

What exactly is the misinformation, he can't vote here, speech is free in America, some folks seem more shocked at what he says about some lefty grown ups than shocked at what was done to these girls. World turned upside down? We'll continually raped and tortured would pretty much obliterate their world.

"Lefty grown ups"?
I'm rather concerned by the risk of violence to MPs, such as Jess Phillips.

Goldenbear · 08/01/2025 12:32

1dayatatime · 08/01/2025 12:06

@wholettheturnipsburn

Well it's not just some posters that have the view that "the government are following up the Jay recommendations because of musk?"

This is a quote today from Professor Jay who led the inquiry:

"I have heard very little in the last few days about the appalling and lifelong effects that child sexual abuse can have on people.

I am pleased that the subject matter and the inquiry recommendations are finally getting the attention they deserve but this is definitely not the way I would have chosen for it to happen, but it has had the effect of moving on the agenda."

So would you equally describe Professor Jay as naive for believing that the publicity Musk's posts have generated has had the effect of moving this issue up the agenda?

But she has also said that no new inquiry is needed didn't she?

BIossomtoes · 08/01/2025 12:10

1dayatatime · 08/01/2025 12:06

@wholettheturnipsburn

Well it's not just some posters that have the view that "the government are following up the Jay recommendations because of musk?"

This is a quote today from Professor Jay who led the inquiry:

"I have heard very little in the last few days about the appalling and lifelong effects that child sexual abuse can have on people.

I am pleased that the subject matter and the inquiry recommendations are finally getting the attention they deserve but this is definitely not the way I would have chosen for it to happen, but it has had the effect of moving on the agenda."

So would you equally describe Professor Jay as naive for believing that the publicity Musk's posts have generated has had the effect of moving this issue up the agenda?

I think she failed to realise it was in the King’s speech in October.