To think that Musk is now overstepping himself and the UK gvt should threaten action

No no, it is you making it party political, as always.

I didn’t name any politicians. Other politicians of all stripes have suffered threats and violence. This is disgusting and unacceptable of course and a huge issue has been made of it each time.

Not so much outrage and action from them when it is poor working class girls being brutalised is there?

Once again, I am motivated by fury and the cover up by both parties, ongoing inaction and obfuscation, their outrage when they are threatened themselves but lethargy when girls are being tortured.

Your political allegiance colours every thought you have, to the detriment of the real victims.

I do feel that many people just want justice for the victims and those responsible to go to jail.
Why hasn't this happened?
Mind you, it took the people fighting for justice for the victims of Hillsborough decades to get anywhere and people didn't go to jail for that.
Would another enquiry result in those vile human beings being locked up and prosecuted? It just never seems to happen and that's what people want you to see. It's just so depressing and yet many are known to the authorities and the police. I can't get my head around how soft we are in this country tbh.

We were talking about Jess Phillips as were you when you said “when one of their own feels threatened”. Don’t play innocent. It doesn’t work.

I believe it is you scoring cheap political
points across all threads on this subject.

My post mentioned politicians in general, yet once again you are making it about labour vs conservative. I am sick to death of this being made a political football while the rapes
continue and those that facilitated it remain unaccountable.

@1dayatatime

Something may not be a direct threat, but describing someone as a "rape apologist" may prompt others to harm that person and therefore put them at risk.

But you know this and are just trying to argue your point. To goad and irritate. I don't believe for a second you're arguing in good faith.

I honestly shudder to think what's on his hard drive.

Frankly, if the UK constitution is that easily destabilised then perhaps we need to take a different look at the way things are run. (I've long believed that we do). If anyone's destabilised our democracy in recent times it's Boris Johnson and his prorogation of parliament to suit his own political ends.

@bombastix upthread gives one of the many good reasons why:

This means that the UK is an "elective dictatorship" in the sense that whoever wins with a big enough majority is given everything at their disposal for around five years when the law says that there is another go at deciding who is in charge.

This, and an unelected upper house.

As to Jess Phillips, especially given her previous championing of women's rights and drawing attention to the large numbers murdered at the hands of men, people will be disappointed in the way she voted and are entitled to say so. The optics are horrendous, whatever justification she gives as to the way the whole issue has been handled and the level at which she believes inquiries should have taken place. Personally, I agree. What's worse: allowing huge rings of sexual traffickers and abusers to have their behaviour (again) rugswept, or sending the message that the UK has allowed its politics to be swayed by an influential, American bigmouth? As far as I'm concerned that one's a no-brainer.

But calling her a 'genocidal rape apologist' is another thing entirely - the first word in particular is horrendous and deliberately incendiary. There is no need for it whatsoever. This woman has had enough issues with her personal safety in the past, without elevating these again on the whim of a powerful American who, as she rightly says, is going way over his remit. And I find it interesting, as always, that it's a woman first and foremost who has, yet again, been pushed into the firing line. Interesting that he didn't choose to make similar examples of the many male MPs who also voted 'no'.

Add in a couple of misogynistic slurs for good measure - it's a US right-winger we are talking about after all. Incidentally, Musk's own track record as to allegations of inappropriate sexual conduct hardly put him in the strongest position to throw around slurs of that kind.

Rule #1 of misogyny: 'women are responsible for what men do'.

Jess Phillips’ life work has been supporting victims of abuse. She was doing it long before she was elected as an MP. If you really cared about these women you’d be horrified at the threats of violence against her not scoring cheap political points. Badenoch won’t even meet them.

And if you’re incapable of understanding the concept of incitement @1dayatatime, you really should do some research. Because incitement to violence is a crime.

Extract from that FT article

Elon Musk has privately discussed with allies how Sir Keir Starmer could be removed as UK prime minister before the next general election, according to people briefed on the matter.

Musk, the world’s richest man and key confidant of US president-elect Donald Trump, is probing how he and his right-wing allies can destabilise the UK Labour government beyond the aggressive posts he has issued on his social media platform X, the people said.

This is all about post truth politics, and degree to which you think emotions and feelings should dictate what politicians do.

The UK is not like the US in as much as it regulates speech by law; and it has systems by which its democracy must adhere to form a government.

This means that the UK is an "elective dictatorship" in the sense that whoever wins with a big enough majority is given everything at their disposal for around five years when the law says that there is another go at deciding who is in charge.

I read a credible story in the FT that Musk is looking at ways to destabilise the UK Government. His monomania about the UK (and indeed Germany) is bizarre.

@DuncinToffee

"Is that how you defend a bloke who is literally attempting to subvert our democracy?"

Oh dear - calling for the resignation of the PM and a new election (which incidentally will never happen given Labour's majority) is something opposition parties and individual voters do all the time around the world.

It's called having an effective opposition to hold the incumbent Government to account and is an important part of democracy not subverting it.

Was the calling for Liz Truss resignation by both Labour and Conservatives subverting democracy?

I really think that the left are now struggling with the basics of freedom of speech vs direct threats and the functioning of a democracy.

Wouldn’t it be lovely if politicians and their lackeys had ever showed the same concern for the thousands of raped and tortured girls up and down the country as they are now doing when one of their own feels threatened. I won’t hold
my breath.

@BIossomtoes

"It wouldn’t be “hurty words” if your life was endangered by social media posts, would it @1dayatatime?"

So any social media or in person direct threats to people's lives or incitement to commit violence is illegal and as such are investigated/ prosecuted by the police.

For example: www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgrj75yx2q0o.amp

Musk has described Jess Phillips in some fairly unpleasant and illogical terms ("genocidal rape apologist") but that doesn't represent a direct threat to her.

Other X posters may make direct threats to her on X which should be investigated by the police but none of these have come from Musk.

Yes he is the owner of the X platform but that doesn't make him responsible for these views in the same way MN is not responsible for some of the views expressed here.

To make it easier for you, calling someone a dickhead or a witch or even a rape apologist is hurty words.

Saying that right wing protesters should have their throats cut or that asylum seeker hotels should be set on fire is a direct incitement to violence.

There is certainly an unpleasant trend from the left to silence or suppress opposing views or views that they disagree with.

Hurty words

Is that how you defend a bloke who is literally attempting to subvert our democracy?

Echos from this summer's riots.

I know. Jess Phillips is in greater danger as a result of those tweets, her security has been stepped up and anyone who saw her Newsnight interview can see how affected she is by it. Minimising the harm that can be done by social media is so irresponsible. I seem to remember “hurty words” was applied to that odious woman who incited burning asylum seekers in their beds. It wouldn’t be “hurty words” if your life was endangered by social media posts, would it @1dayatatime?

How? Will get their EU subsidies back perhaps? If so I will just have to tip my hat to him and accept that he is a genius.

And what about the world wide epidemic of online grooming, sexual abuse and rape that Meta facilitates the majority of. How about looking at issues closer to home?

We expect higher standards from the UK in all honesty

hurty words 🙄

Funny how he ignores other forms of abuse of children....just highlights the stuff that fits his racist agenda.

we dont vote for lots of people but they still can influence the Pm etc

@BIossomtoes

"Exactly. He also called her a witch, I believe. That’s not freedom of speech, it’s libel."

Sorry to disappoint you its not libel. Libel is the making of a defamatory statement about someone in a written form.

Defamatory statement being meaning if it has the potential to lower a claimant's reputation in the eyes of ordinary members of society, expose him to contempt, hatred or ridicule or disparage him in his business, trade or profession.

It should also be specific, examples would include a false accusation of involvement in a particular criminal activity. Whereas for example saying Liz Truss was out of her depth and a useless PM would not be libel.

I recognise that the left want to criminalise "hurty words" but calling someone a witch is highly unlikely to result in a libel prosecution and to be blunt calling someone a "rape apologist" nasty as it is would also fail to meet the standards needed for a libel action.

Whereas falsely accusing a specific politician of a specific criminal offence would qualify as libel.

So why has he picked on the UK? Are you saying Putin is in the right to invade Ukraine? He’s not mentioned Putin on Twitter. What about how women are raped in India, what about how children are forced into marriage at a young age. What about how in some culture female genital mutilation is still carried out in countries to this day and age. What about how there are multiple issues with gun crime in the US
if he sees himself fit to attack the Uk, why isn’t he attacking the remainder of the politics and politicians in the world. Not to mention what goes on in DUbai, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Palestine!

Why doesn't Musk concentrate on the vast child marriage problem the USA has?

People in glass houses and all that . . .

And has endangered her