Page 17 | To think that Musk is now overstepping himself and the UK gvt should threaten action

UpTheLoobyLooTree · 07/01/2025 12:09

Not everyone on that list is still an MP. In fact, not everyone on that list is even alive.

CovenOfCheeses · 07/01/2025 12:08

ABetterYou · 07/01/2025 05:29

The issue really should NOT be about Elon. The real issue is why did politicians, police and counsellors allow the systematic abuse and violence of children. The truth if you are sincere about it is “the vote bank” of those communities.

All that is required for evil to prevail if for otherwise good people to look the other way. Labour did not look the other way; they actively participated in the cover up.

All children are precious. Starmer has violated fundamental principles of humanity.

This is disingenuous and really not warranted. We really do not need trolls who have had to settle sexual convictions out of court working for a convicted rapist to advise the government about rape. The government has recommendations to review and due process to follow to stay within the law and international obligations.

BIossomtoes · 07/01/2025 11:54

Puzzledandpissedoff · 07/01/2025 10:22

If countries don't want their criminals back, then all citizen immigration from that country ceases until a deal to take them back is made and signed

A bill to introduce such a "deal" was reportedly introduced in 2021, but I'm having trouble finding out what happened to it ... squashed by those who can't bear any firm action to be taken perhaps?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jul/06/uk-to-block-visas-from-countries-refusing-to-take-back-undocumented-migrants#:~:text=UK%20to%20block%20visas%20for%20countries%20refusing%20to%20take%20back%20asylum%20seekers,-This%20article%20is&text=The%20UK%20will%20block%20visas,rejected%20asylum%20seekers%20or%20offenders.

How could a bill be squashed when there was a government with a huge majority in 2021? Johnson’s government would have got anything he wanted through parliament at that point.

Goldenbear · 07/01/2025 11:40

randomchap · 07/01/2025 11:23

Resorting to insults now? That's rather undignified.

I'm at least capable of seeing when a proposed solution will not work.

Just under a 5th of nhs workers are immigrants

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-7783/

As a country we are struggling for people to do some roles. Threatening to not take people who we need is not a viable negotiating tactic. It's a nonsense

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I wouldn't bother engaging with the negative naysayers that only appear to know how to pull things apart or erect huge walls preventing any optimistic solutions!

Goldenbear · 07/01/2025 11:37

randomchap · 07/01/2025 10:42

You are confusing two issues.

As a country we need immigrants, the economy and nhs would not survive without them.

We also need to do something about the foreign born rapists at the end of their sentences. Threatening to refuse all immigration from countries that won't accept them back would not work. It would be seen as a bluff as economically it's untenable.

It's a very shit and complex situation, and simplistic solutions need to be challenged.

We should be working on solutions that will actually work. Maybe implementing the recommendations of the child abuse inquiry. Increasing the numbers of police, longer sentences, more education in schools so children can speak up easier etc

And btw, I am a survivor of childhood sexual abuse and any suggestion that I'm a rape apologist, or on their side can fuck right off

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Jeez, I hear you, immigration is ECONOMIC POLICY, in case it needs spelling out for the reactionary knee jerkers amongst us! This forum used to be full of intelligent conversation and rational posters, what has happened!!

JHound · 07/01/2025 11:36

Parker231 · 07/01/2025 11:36

Jess Philips has support from those that matter.

This should be amplified.

JHound · 07/01/2025 11:36

Bogginsthe3rd · 07/01/2025 02:02

Musk has just posted this on twitter (among other unhinged tweets). To me this reads as a thinly veiled threat to democratically elected UK MPs and actually the UK government should consider sanctions to the US if he continues this attack when he enters the White House?

I really wish we could just ignore him.

He is a foreign troll and should be treated as such.

I don’t have an issue with it being highlighted which MPs voted against deportations but this is completely decontextualised and there maybe valid reasons to vote against that decision but we have a lot of stupid people among us not capable of complex thought.

Parker231 · 07/01/2025 11:36

Jess Philips has support from those that matter.

To think that Musk is now overstepping himself and the UK gvt should threaten action

randomchap · 07/01/2025 11:26

AlisonDonut · 07/01/2025 11:15

Well known internationally?

I live internationaly and this is not well known. Who says it and why do they say it?

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Just because you're unaware of it doesn't mean that others are unaware

Just under a 5th of the nhs workforce are immigrants. Essential people. We can't threaten to not take immigrants as the damage would be to us, not the country they are coming from.

randomchap · 07/01/2025 11:23

This reply has been deleted

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Resorting to insults now? That's rather undignified.

I'm at least capable of seeing when a proposed solution will not work.

Just under a 5th of nhs workers are immigrants

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-7783/

As a country we are struggling for people to do some roles. Threatening to not take people who we need is not a viable negotiating tactic. It's a nonsense

JRSKSSBH · 07/01/2025 11:22

This reply has been deleted

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Precisely.

RingoJuice · 07/01/2025 11:22

MargoLivebetter · 07/01/2025 10:08

@RingoJuice and @yohohoCrimbo the defence lawyers are not morally bankrupt, they are there to provide defence for the defendant. That is their legal duty. I don't suppose they take any joy whatsoever in defending such dreadful people but our legal system ensures that we all have the right to defence and a fair trial.

Against deportation when it concerns a criminal act you’ve already been prosecuted and served a sentence for?

Insane tbh. They’ve done the crime, why should there be any further legal review of the deportation order?

JRSKSSBH · 07/01/2025 11:22

randomchap · 07/01/2025 10:51

I'm not confused at all.

Why do specific countries matter. She said any country.

Part of the issue is that some people are renouncing their duel citizenship and only keeping their British one. Someone may then be born overseas but have no legal connection to their country of birth.

Like I say, it's a very complicated and difficult issue. The government should be working on long term viable solutions. What has been suggested is not one

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So maybe we make their life here unbearable. I would suggest: a curfew, electronic tag, restrictions on use of phone and computer, restrictions on where they may physically visit/ who they can interact with, curtailment of benefits, requirement to move to another town…. Non- compliance= jail time. It is possible with some imagination to make life in this country so grim that they want to remigrate.

wholettheturnipsburn · 07/01/2025 11:21

I see Gordon Brown is getting it now too.

Musk is a moron

timenowplease · 07/01/2025 11:15

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AlisonDonut · 07/01/2025 11:15

randomchap · 07/01/2025 11:10

Again. Our need for immigrants is massive. It's well known internationally. Threatening to not accept them would be known to be a bluff. This solution would not work.

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Well known internationally?

I live internationaly and this is not well known. Who says it and why do they say it?

wholettheturnipsburn · 07/01/2025 11:12

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 07/01/2025 09:34

Personally I think it’d be better for the likes of Starmer and the mainstream media to ignore him - in the same way that you might ignore a thoroughly PITA, attention-seeking child.

This is the answer.

He's like a petulant toddler. And all the new Mumsnet fanboys and girls will have to look elsewhere to peddle their filth

madgesb · 07/01/2025 11:11

twilightermummy · 07/01/2025 10:58

Somebody on TV made a good point yesterday and that was, he's from S Africa with one of the highest murder and sexual assault rates, why isn't he sticking his head in there? It'd make much more sense than interfering with us which is, quite frankly, bizarre.
Yes, he may have a point about the rape gangs. A lot didn't get punished and it doesn't surprise me to hear that it's an ongoing problem. However, we have a problem with all men around the world at the moment and I'd like to see genuine action rather than some lunatic using it as a tool for division.
I am waiting for the fallout with Trump. It's been somewhat interesting watching the drama with Farage. I bet he's secretly seething, even though it's worked out well for him PR wise here.

What about what about

randomchap · 07/01/2025 11:10

timenowplease · 07/01/2025 11:02

Why do specific countries matter. She said any country.

Well it kinda does matter actually. Which countries do this?

What was suggested here was in fact a great solution. Imagine how quickly we will come to an agreement with a country which currently refuses to take back it's crims if this is introduced?

Also whilst we're at it we change the law about renounced citizenships and any other loop holes.

You seem paralysed with the complexity of it. Maybe this is why it's a good thing we have people like Musk shining a spotlight and galvanizing action.. because the government of this country certainly does not listen to voters.

Edited

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Again. Our need for immigrants is massive. It's well known internationally. Threatening to not accept them would be known to be a bluff. This solution would not work.

timenowplease · 07/01/2025 11:10

SuzieNine · 07/01/2025 10:59

Pakistan has refused to take back Pakistani-born criminals who have renounced their citizenship. Pakistan's perspective is that as they have renounced their citizenship they are no longer Pakistan's problem. The UK of course did exactly the same thing with Shamina Begum - actually stripping her of her citizenship so that we didn't have to take any responsibility to have her back.

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What other countries?

Shamina Begum is possibly not the best example for this situation. Firstly, she didn't commit any crimes in this country as far as I'm aware and was out of the country when she did. Secondly, she is eligible for a Bangladeshi passport and I presume also Dutch residency as she married a Dutch man.

Zilla1 · 07/01/2025 11:07

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 07/01/2025 10:45

Twitter, like every other social platform, is filled with sexually dodgy men, so don't be daft Zilla1 . What does Musk think should be done about that?

Which is what the UK government should be encouraging the press to ask Mr Musk, highlighting the use of the platforms for CSA and how free speech absolutists and tech bros might appear to facilitate child abuse, much like all the companies who make billions from end to end encrypted services and hardware. Rather than having the press enjoy watching a fight between the UK and Musk, encourage the press to seek out any hypocrisy amongst those who have the power to make corporate decisions. If/when the press demur, the government then move their responses from defending Starmer and keeping the CPS role in the public eye to prodding the press for not doing their job.

timenowplease · 07/01/2025 11:02

randomchap · 07/01/2025 10:51

I'm not confused at all.

Why do specific countries matter. She said any country.

Part of the issue is that some people are renouncing their duel citizenship and only keeping their British one. Someone may then be born overseas but have no legal connection to their country of birth.

Like I say, it's a very complicated and difficult issue. The government should be working on long term viable solutions. What has been suggested is not one

Show quote history

Why do specific countries matter. She said any country.

Well it kinda does matter actually. Which countries do this?

What was suggested here was in fact a great solution. Imagine how quickly we will come to an agreement with a country which currently refuses to take back it's crims if this is introduced?

Also whilst we're at it we change the law about renounced citizenships and any other loop holes.

You seem paralysed with the complexity of it. Maybe this is why it's a good thing we have people like Musk shining a spotlight and galvanizing action.. because the government of this country certainly does not listen to voters.

SuzieNine · 07/01/2025 10:59

timenowplease · 07/01/2025 10:44

I'm not confused about anything. It's you who's confused.

Which countries are refusing to take back their own citizens?

Edited

Show quote history

Pakistan has refused to take back Pakistani-born criminals who have renounced their citizenship. Pakistan's perspective is that as they have renounced their citizenship they are no longer Pakistan's problem. The UK of course did exactly the same thing with Shamina Begum - actually stripping her of her citizenship so that we didn't have to take any responsibility to have her back.

twilightermummy · 07/01/2025 10:58

Somebody on TV made a good point yesterday and that was, he's from S Africa with one of the highest murder and sexual assault rates, why isn't he sticking his head in there? It'd make much more sense than interfering with us which is, quite frankly, bizarre.
Yes, he may have a point about the rape gangs. A lot didn't get punished and it doesn't surprise me to hear that it's an ongoing problem. However, we have a problem with all men around the world at the moment and I'd like to see genuine action rather than some lunatic using it as a tool for division.
I am waiting for the fallout with Trump. It's been somewhat interesting watching the drama with Farage. I bet he's secretly seething, even though it's worked out well for him PR wise here.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 07/01/2025 10:56

"Former chair of child abuse inquiry says another one would only delay action
"

This is why I'm surprised that there isn't more government appetite for yet more inquiries - except there kind of is, but they all want some other branch of government to do it

It couldn't be more obvious that nobody in authority wants to grasp this very difficult nettle, and that the noise and fury over Musk and the rest serves to avoid doing exactly that. Only too easy to keep passing the political hot potato to someone else, aided by headlines which form a useful distraction