To think that tradesmen take the piss with their rates?

Pretty shitty to do that AFTER he's done the work
How would you feel if he said "well, in that case I have to charge you VAT, so another £65, and the same for the materials, that'll be an extra extra £20 please"

100% agree. We’re an academic family but my kids feel degrees are a waste of time and money, given the amount of debt you end up in, though one is doing a degree (while living at home) that will lead to potentially very high earnings in construction.

I can’t stand the snobbishness to trades people and their earnings (not that I’m saying OP is). A friend of mine is a roofer, fits solar panels etc. He’s amazingly well read and well-educated (mostly self-taught). He’s sick of people (who are often dim wits) talking down to him and trying to get money knocked off or paying late, when they’d be appalled if people did that to them in their ‘professional’ jobs.

You can find general handymen recommended on Spotted page for your area on facebook. E.g. spotted Luton etc.

No one forced you to use a tradesman, all those things you could of done yourself, you are paying for the convenience of having it done by someone skilled and knowing it's been done right.
Nothing stopping you quitting being a teacher and training for a trade.
My husband window cleans and I'm a cleaner and we probably make more in a day then a teacher too and with very little stress, but that was our career choice and you chose yours.

The issue is that we have too many graduates and not enough tradespeople.

DH gets weekly trade magazines and apparently a huge number of tradesmen are likely to retire in the next 5 years.

There builders/plumbers/boiler fitters that we have used over the past couple of years have said that they cannot keep apprentices. The day starts too early and it is heavy/dirty work.

So for the remaining ones the world will be their oyster! Prices will likely go up more.

> there’s maybe not much work out there as a lot of people do their own these days.

If that were true, the price would be lower

It's because the vast majority of millennials can't (or can't be bothered to) do simple DIY jobs that means tradesmen can charge what they like (and, btw, £45/hour is not excessive for a competent trained professional)

Agreed. Plus, he only charges for his time when he's actually working. Due to travelling between jobs or the work being ad hoc, it's not like they're actually doing 8 hours a day every day. He also won't get paid while he's on holiday or sick.

Take the £270 job. He only worked for 4 hours, but did he really do anything before getting to you at 10 or after leaving you at 4? Chances are probably not and that will have been his only money for the day.

Ultimately the rules of supply and demand apply. If the price is too high, people won't pay. He's set his rates at an amount that people will pay, so why should he charge less?

Thank you for this thoughtful post.

Self-employed trades people don’t get paid sick leave, holiday leave, they have to pay for their equipment, upkeep, if they have a vehicle or premises that adds costs… it’s not just as simple as being employed. So no, they are not charging too much, I’m sure you have been charged the going rate. You’re free to shop around… But a family member who was a painter and decorator found people were constantly trying to drive the price down and find cheaper labour, which in turn drove the quality of work down. It’s frustrating.

Make sure you get multiple quotes for the work. Then you can negotiate the costs before they start.

Must be the five years at university 😂

You are not comparing like with like. They have to cover their own training, insurance, advertising, often a van, sick and holiday pay etc and unpaid time quoting for jobs they don’t get.

You should compare like with like, that is fair - so you should compare your salary after 5 years at uni with the salaries of investment bankers, some of whom also spent 5 years at uni.

I don't know how old you are, but to compare the physical side of work of a poor sod who is bent double to fix your valve (digging the road, tiling the roof) at age, say 50, to the genteel physical endeavour of a teacher/officer worker is wrong. If anything, they should be charging more.

There was also an excellent comment here - about tools, driving to/driving from and being self-employed - no paid holiday, no paid paternity leave, no paid compassionate leave, etc. no luxuries which full-time teachers somehow take for granted.

But I see what you are saying - in my opinion, teaching is the most important job in the world, not just subject teaching, but brining up new generations the right way. Of course you should be paid more, of course you should be afforded more respect, but we should leave any comparisons with physical jobs out of it, I think.

Op, you are aware that most tradesmen have completed a 2-4 year apprenticeship early in their career to learn their skills and the apprenticeship also usually involves day or block release to college.
My son has recently started a 4-year engineering apprenticeship, he'll be paid minimum wage which isn't great and he has to work the odd shifts each month in what was his previous part-time job to give him a little extra cash.
His 1st year will mostly be spent at a training centre learning all the basic skills required to be remotely useful to his company plus day release to college, all at a considerable cost to his new employer. He'll then continue day-release at college for the remainder of his apprenticeship while out working in the field learning from highly skilled & trained tradesmen. During this time his employer will provide protective clothing & equipment and going forward any tools required for the job and a van. He's just 1 person within that relatively small company.
Apprenticeships and the skills developed from the training are highly sought after (and also pitched at many different levels including degree).

I do the total opposite, anyone asking me how to get the kids into medicine, tell them just don't do it fullstop. Skip uni be an electrician or plumber!

Those rates sound ok to me. It’s quite arrogant to assume because you’ve been to university for five years your time is somehow worth more than that of tradespeople.

ive had a lot of work done on my house. Work I could not possibly have done myself and I went to university for four years so only one year less than you!

I ordered some flat pack furniture the other day fully intending to put it together myself. Opened the box and it was more complicated than I thought and some of the pieces are heavy too. Decided to pay a handyman to do it. Worth it in my view.

Just glad there are now handymen around to do all these small jobs.

It's not that I think tradies earn too much, more that public sector workers should earn more. Everyone who works hard and makes sacrifices for their career deserves to be comfortable, regardless of their career path

I can see where you are coming from op. We were quoted £75/hr labour rate for laminate flooring a few years back. That is not a particularly skilled job. He wanted us to supply all materials and to move all the furniture and to dispose of the old carpet. Yes they have insurance but so do we as medical professionals. In the end we did it ourselves and it only took us a weekend to get a good finish. We spent £30 on tools. We watched 2 YouTube videos. It's different for electricians and plumbers and skilled building work but this flooring guy was in demand and that was why he could charge more. Cleaners near me charge £25/hr, customer supplying own products, only accepting clients within a a very small 1 mile radius. Yes they have insurance but I've done cleaning in the past and so I know it wasn't much. It's just supply and demand. A lot of the private sector are getting paid more now but the public sector has stagnated for the past 5 years. I've got a teacher friend who is training as a plumber in evening classes.
I think there is an unhelpful view by some that public sector workers still get paid too much (thinking back to the final salary pensioner types) but we are very good value and loving a very frugal and modest lifestyle. I hope our wages go up eventually to match inflation.

But but but the OP went to university don't you know! I've got a review meeting on Thursday with our Electrical Apprentice. Lovely lad. Next week is the review with our Apprentice Joiner - dyslexic kid who barely got a pass at GCSE but he knows how to fit a kitchen, hang doors, etc. I'm happy knowing that both those lads, through hard work and determination, will be earning more soon than the OP and her snobbery.

It's a failing of the comprehensive system.

I don’t know why we are not making it easier to acquire these skills - schools around here provide little information on degree alternatives - everything is geared for Uni

It is expensive to get people in to do odd jobs, however the way you have judged it is wrong, it's like saying teachers get paid enormous amounts for the actual time they work because they have short days and long holidays. We all know there is more to it than just the time you see them working.

So, I'm pulling on my coat to go to a customer, they have random tripping of an RCD on a split load board off a TN-C-S supply.
Its a Neutral Earth fault, or rather cumulative IR breakdown across 10 circuits.

Do you know what I'm on about OP, could you fix it - that's what I earn my money for, specialist knowledge and skill, that is learned through 3 years at college and years in the field.

So now your complaint is that because you supported the black economy, robbed the HMRC of a fair bit of cash, you feel ripped off?

I think what people are paid depends mostly on supply and demand.

At the moment trades are low in supply and the demand is high. Ergo probably sensible to ditch teaching and retrain in a trade if a high income is a priority for you.

Kids are generally misinformed at school as to which careers/jobs will provide which levels of income. Passing exams at high grades doesn't guarantee high income. I have two self made multi millionaire cousins in my family, both got rubbish GCSEs and no further formal qualifications. The cousins who earn the least have degrees.

I think there is huge disparity in what value people bring and what they are paid in our society, that's the capitalist system for you.