To think minimum wage is dire. What hourly rate would you work for?

As I say, I've run one. And to some extent I disagree with you.

It's certainly true that companies exist to make a profit. But that's only a part of their function. They also exist to provide structure and opportunity for their employees. They also exist to support their people as part of their families. They also exist to serve as focus and enablement to communities. They also exist to contribute to the culture and self-realisation of wider society.

You may say, "Well, yeah, but they can't do any of that stuff unless they make a profit."

To which I reply, do you think that making a profit has to precede all the other stuff? It doesn't. In fact treating your employees in the way I suggest will contribute to profit, because happy, secure employees are hard-working, committed employees. Companies that consider the needs of a people's families will retain employees because of that consideration. Companies that get involved with a community will be supported by that community.

This is not theoretical. It works.

But my point was that if companies do not give steady, reliable income to young people, they can hardly complain - and so many do - when young people just think, "Fuck you - I'm not coming in this weekend. The job just doesn't matter enough to me."

@PointsSouth

Because the rights of corporations to make money comes before anybody else's right to anything.

I agree that employees should be protected from exploitation but to be fair businesses exist to make a profit. It is unrealistic to expect them not to make money, indeed they would go bust if they didn't.

I'm self employed and charge "per job" if you like

My hourly rate varies from £40 per hour to over £200 per hour - that said - I (unfortunately) work no more than 10-15 hours a week so I'm not rich but I'm okay for money

Can't imagine working for min wage now

Wages in general are dire unless you work in a select few industries. That’s why we have a ‘cost of living crisis’. Wages do not align with the cost of everything else. Minimum wage workers are the most vulnerable too given that many work zero hours or casual contracts and if they are off sick they simply don’t earn.

@PointsSouth sure!

www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights this is a good starting point. Companies deal with it differently but she's entitled to holiday for the hours she's worked - not based on her contract.

www.gov.uk/guidance/statutory-sick-pay-how-different-employment-types-affect-what-you-pay

Ah, maybe I've misunderstood, or she has.

Can you point me at an informational link? Thank you.

She's absolutely entitled to sick and holiday pay regardless of if she's PT/FT - if they're not paying her that they're breaking the law.

The minimum wage is (scroogily) calculated on the assumption that you'll do forty-plus hours per week.

Unfortunately, a lot of MW jobs are also those that offer low-hour contracts. For instance, bar and restaurant work.

My daughter got a job the middle of last year as a server at a national chain restaurant. She was on contract. They were very busy and they wanted her to do thirty hours a week - so not quite enough to qualify as a permanent employee, which would mean they'd have to offer benefits such as sick pay and holiday. However, she could just about survive on that - pay the rent, eat, come home to get her washing done and leave with all our cheese.

But her employment contract guarantees only five hours a week, and since November, when her seaside town is deserted, that's all they give her. Five hours a week on minimum wage. And even then, if it's quiet, they send her home.

So I told her to apply for Universal Credit, which she has.

What this amounts to is that corporations - the employers - are saying, 'Yuh, we want these people available, but when things are quiet, we expect the taxpayer to support them. Maybe things'll pick up in the spring. Letcha know.'

I have been an employer. And a parent. And it seems to me that it's the job of employers to offer young people dependable, regular income, so that they can establish themselves in the world - get a flat, take responsibility for it, build a life.

My kids are lucky, and they know it - I provide a safety net. But plenty of kids - and I'm talking late teens, early twenties - don't have that. And it's wrong - it's absolutely immoral - that we've built a society in which young people have to rely on either parents or the state in order to make their way in the world.

How have we got here? Because the rights of corporations to make money comes before anybody else's right to anything.

I know minimum wage is there to protect people working in unskilled , “first steps” jobs, eg retail, hospitality however I was working in childcare and still on minimum wage. A job that needs a qualification. 3 years ago I was work in for £9 an hour with 3 other staff and 32 children in our care. Demoralising. NMW for caring, educating and encouraging our future generations is a bit of a slap in the face. This was a private sector job,

I now work for the Local Authority who pay much more which makes you feel more valued as a staff member.

No one knows what life may throw at them. To put food on the table and pay the bills I’d work for minimum wage if that’s what I needed to do. It would be a huge change to living standards. But we need to eat.

Regardless minimum wage should allow someone to rent a 1 bed and live a normal lifestyle, too many people working ft have to claim UC just to get by.

As long as it covered the bills then some for savings etc roughly 22-24k per year but obviously depends on the area and cost of Bill's etc

Violins are playing for both of you

I feel this is as well. This is my pay bracket and I feel so underpaid. DP earns twice that.
My sister earns 300 K for a 4 day week. Before anyone says about her responsibility being high - so is mine!

I seem to remember supermarket workers etc being important enough during the pandemic, but only important enough for minimum wage. and expendable being exposed to an unknown pandemic Jobs may not require 'expertise' but that's exactly what customers want.
Go into a shop and ask for 'advice', from someone being paid peanuts. If they were experts, they would be that chef, decorator, electrican, plumber earning better wages.
Anyone working a full-time job should be able to afford rent/mortgage for their needs. Nobody working 40 hrs a week should need government top ups.

The issue beyond that is the minimum wage is relatively high. Which has in turn made paying fair wages to higher skilled staff with more responsibility difficult to budget for. As per my hospitality example above. An employer can only pay staff if customers come in. They won't come in as much or often if the main meal instead of being £15 becomes £25.

The same thing applies to all industries. Increase wages and whatever service or product they produce has to increase in price also.

Did you actually read my post? I pointed out that jobs that are currently considered low skill like hospitality and caring should be reclassified as having a higher skill rating than eg someone in an office typing up letters. As such those in hospitality and caring should receive more.

This is exactly the problem. I understand why people in professional jobs get upset being paid the same as NMW workers. NMW is supposed to be entry level, no skills etc.

I get peed off though when these workers think that NMW should be paid less!! The problem is their jobs should be paying far more.

I moved around every 2 years practically from 2016 to increase my wage from 17k to 50K. There was no option of staying in the job even though I liked the colleagues. I need to be able to pay bills. I do keep an eye out on jobs and always appalled to see Managers jobs asking for lots of experience paying 25K. Just doing it cos they can get away with it. Awful.

I get sick pay, above average holidays, can WFH. But toilet and lunch breaks are monitored (standard in the industry) and antisocial hours once every month

The thing I always point out when people say they only earn a £1 or £2 above minimum wage is that a salary is not the only thing that matters in a job. Most minimum wage jobs offer basic holiday, no sick pay, unsocial hours, zero chance of WFH, no set hours, handbags checked, toilet breaks monitored etc. These things can make a big difference.

An admin employee in an office might earn the same as one in Lidl but they don't have to do a manual job, probably don't work evenings or weekends, have bank holidays off and a nice break at Xmas and can probably make a drink or use the toilet without having to ask permission.

They restrict because the crisis has got so bad, previously the criteria was a lot more open but the criteria has had to become stricter because there's fewer homes....

Only building social housing is pointless because they typically are strict as to who can qualify and housing is an issue across more than the lowest of income brackets.

We just need more homes full stop.

Ideally I wouldnt get out of bed for less then several hundred K, but like most people I have to take what I can get.
Employers will pay as little as they feel they can get away with.

much appricated and true points

Yes something like that. The better the players, the more games they win, the better the club does. So the best players are worth loads. Some with film stars - if they are an actor who can help draw audiences in the film makes more money.