To hate Americanisms...?

Why is that sad? I’m genuinely curious. It might be mildly interesting for historical purposes and the OED, but I guess I would rather not hassle with different spellings, grammar, etc. It would be marvellous to me to be able to communicate freely and directly with anyone else in the world…all the same language, and would seem to me to stop a lot of misunderstandings. I sadly don’t see the Babelfish coming to us anytime soon, to paraphrase Hitchhiker’s Guide.

But on the other hand, doesn’t learning to speak grammatically correct English help you out in the world?

Absolutely! People are judged by the way they speak and communicate in writing. That's just a fact of life. But I think it's worthwhile to encourage an interest in local dialect and colloquialisms. Most of us write much less formally on an online forum than we would professionally. Or use slang in casual conversation that we'd never use at work or school. It's sad to let the regional differences in language die out completely.

Right. I think there are movements in the States for tribes to have a language they speak amongst themselves in response. But on the other hand, doesn’t learning to speak grammatically correct English help you out in the wider world?

‘Can I get / have’ is normal speak in my part of Scotland

‘May I’ is posh. I don’t know anyone that says that.

Have you not heard of High German? Luther standardised German with his Bible, and that developed into modern German. Before WWI, local patois was common in France. After the troops were nationalised, then there was more of a common French Language. There was a historian named Eugen Weber who wrote a book about this called From Peasants into Frenchmen.
www.sup.org/books/history/peasants-frenchmen

As the world globalises, English will get more standardised. Hopefully it leads to more standardised grammar, spelling and clearer communication.

But for many purposes, the richness and nuance of local dialect and idioms are worth retaining, IMO

I agree. My late mother was a native American. Speaking grammatically correct English was mercilessly drilled into American schoolchildren in past decades resulting in a loss of most cultural language nuance. The message was "assimilate, assimilate, assimilate....

Tell that to the Welsh or to the French. There is a difference between a language and a dialect.

This is about people thinking British English is better than American English, and being resentful American English is getting standardised. That’s all. Look at the title of the thread. Standardised English allows for better communication. It probably is going to be American English that will become standardised.

This is weird. Do the folk who get irritated by different English dialects also feel a sense of disgust and disappointment when they hear a foreign language like French? Are we also going to list the Italian phrases which really get our goats.

Now there's been a complete turnaround and local dialect is very much encouraged. Some people never move out of the area and find it hard to speak proper English.

But surely they are exposed to "proper English" through media, especially television. As for "aye," I would argue that it's as proper as "yes" depending on context. It's a Scots word, as well as an older English word. It is in no way substandard or improper.

I grew up being told that our local dialect words weren't "speaking properly". So in answer to a question at home I'd say "aye" but at school I'd say "yes"

Now there's been a complete turnaround and local dialect is very much encouraged. Some people never move out of the area and find it hard to speak proper English.

So what's the difference between someone speaking a different language such as welsh, vs using a non standard English dialect?
There's already effectively standard American English and standard British English. There are circumstances where it's appropriate to use them and others where it's not required.

of course I don’t object to using Welsh or Gaelic. See my post above concerning Welsh. It is a United Kingdom…maybe everyone should speak all three languages? Why not?

I speak Spanish, can read Latin and some Italian. What I am saying is that having a standardised language makes communication easier and more straightforward. Maybe in the UK where communication is anything but straightforward (nuance, things left unsaid), that might seems odd to you, I’m not sure.

No, clearly not. Farewell........

What if American standardised English did win out? Wouldn’t it save a lot of hassle concerning different spellings and usages? Again, I think this is about nationalistic pride, not really about the desire for clear communication.

Oh, I'm perfectly happy using American English as the standard in my company. If you're communicating with a global audience it's a good idea to use a standard and that's the sensible choice whether little englanders pining for the days when the map was pink agree or not. That 'standard' for spelling is pretty well defined.

But for many purposes, the richness and nuance of local dialect and idioms are worth retaining, IMO.
Do you object to people learning and using Welsh or Gaelic?

But maybe these languages. aren’t irrelevant. Tech controls a lot of stuff…including information exchange, and most people don’t understand the basics of how it works. They think it is too hard, and I’m afraid that is a myth promoted by the tech companies.

It is to people’s benefit to understand how coding languages work, why they work that way, and that leads to understanding of how computers work like they do. If they understood it, some basics about algorithms, etc, then maybe they would be more empowered?

I also don’t think it would do any harm for everyone in the UK to know a little Welsh. Promotes understanding, no?

Do you think most people understand coding languages?

No. Most people don't understand eg Welsh or Basque either. Doesn't mean they're 'arcane' in the sense of mysterious. Arcane in the sense of only a few understanding each language doesn't imply any inherent issue with their understandability, just that they're irrelevant to most people.

The French indeed want a standard use of their language. I don’t see anything wrong with that. I’m not sure how that fossilises their culture…rather it makes communication easier. There is a clear rule book, and people know what to expect.

What if American standardised English did win out? Wouldn’t it save a lot of hassle concerning different spellings and usages? Again, I think this is about nationalistic pride, not really about the desire for clear communication.

Do you think most people understand coding languages?

But, is it appropriateness, or the tech bros can't be arsed to make it easily understandable. They make a lot of money making things arcane.

Honestly I think it's mostly appropriateness, and the results of technological change. I'm not sure many programming languages are 'arcane', any more than a foreign or archaic language with unfamiliar grammar and vocabulary is.

Why don't we have the equivalent of an academie français for English?

Does it really work well for the French? Does it enhance or tend to fossilise their culture? (I'd be interested to hear the views of some French speakers on this!)

I suspect the people who complain about 'Americanisms' wouldn't be in the least bit content if there was one international 'standard English' which they were required to use. Because it's a pound to a gooseberry that at this point it'd be American standard English which won out.

Some of the complexities and issues are discussed in this

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_English

I know that too. But, is it appropriateness, or the tech bros can't be arsed to make it easily understandable. They make a lot of money making things arcane. That's why a database programmer can make 6 figures and why operating systems work so very well, right (ha!). It is why fortunes are charged for computer programmes that don't work very well (exhibit A: the NHS system). It is fun and profitable to have power and feel superior over others who don't understand computing or languages or coding.

We've even handed information exchange and dissemination to tech bros who announce they aren't fact checking their products, so there is propaganda spread for the benefit of politicians. I guess that is a win, right?

The whole thing is risible.

Yeah, I know. I've published taxonomic papers and understand how it works.

Why don't we have the equivalent of an academie français for English? People are content to have multiple spellings, whatever, and then complain about Americanisms and be grammar pedants. What it really is language is an expression of nationalism and tribalism, no? People don't want to communicate, they want to signal their superiority with their usage of language.

My father was a Yorkshireman and would occasionally use phrases such as "gie us a spice" (with the 'us' being pronounced appropriately to the dialect) if he wanted a sweet.

I'm a "Can I get" person (as its everybody I know). "May I" always sounds a bit pleading as if you need their permission.

Just as well PP doesn't live near me. Heard in the butcher this morning -
"Gees a pound o mince" 🤣

You think she should go and fetch the concept of loss?