to think having friends is not worth the hassle

People so frazzled and busy now. But gets disheartening. I asked my friend for coffee other evening she texted just back from walk. Thats fine but find nobody follows up dates to meet. So you can see how it fizzles out.

These individual friendships aren’t bringing you anything and you don’t seem to like the people that much? If you could take it or leave it. It can be a lot or fun to be part of a group. At any age - e.g. some of the funniest and loveliest people I know are a group in their 60s who regularly enjoy going to live music events in the local pubs. Maybe a mixed gender group. I think you need to find the fun in socialising again. Maybe then some authentic friendships will develop from there.

@ViciousCurrentBun oh yes, work as well. I absolutely love finding that connection with people. It's what makes life worth living for me certainly.

@PeachyKeane I could have written your exact post, though I will add work to the list. Even down to a newer friendship, though almost 2 years. That is a rare beast to find. We have that sort of easy time together usually reserved for very long standing friendships.

This is me.

I have friends i have known from school, university, motherhood and one amazing woman I only met a year ago but adore.

All of them have their flaws of course because they are fully rounded human beings. But I love each and every one of them and they add so much fun, support and love to my life. All in different ways.

They say GOOD friends are better than pocket money. Find better friends/be a better friend.

I hear you. 🙂

I think it's more a question of realising you don't often know what is going on in people's lives and may be they are contending with all sorts of despair, disappointment, Ill health that they can't express. We are play things of the Gods. Just treat everyone with sympathy and understanding. We all have to face the horror of death.

I’m. A big fan of my friends from childhood as well though. Ones that have lasted until now (I’m 60) tend to have a very realistic view of me…and are able to express it honestly.
I couldn’t be without my friends @somethingfifty

I agree. I am no more, or less, intolerant, grumpy, or irritable than I've ever been and don't recognise the MN trope about "having no fucks to give" once you get to menopause.

Frankly OP you sound rather difficult.

I have had to lower the bar in my new town re level of intellect and depth but I am slowly adjusting as I need human interaction from time to time.

This made me laugh so much! 😂

I do think we become less tolerant of bad behaviour as we get older but there is also a tendency to slow fade / block those who we consider hard work rather than talk it through . We also recognise that friendships are vital as we age aswell particularly if you have little to no family . Once retired and without work colleagues you could go days / weeks without conversation and company without friends . I've worked out I'm not good with really intense friends eg those who call / text / turn up multiple times a day . I have a good couple of school friends who I probably see 6 times a year and I've cultivated a new group of friends locally that has already endured multiple dramas and fall outs .
It's not easy to navigate .

Hard when its one sided efforts. My circle quite small now. Meeting a friend tomorrow. Binned the must catch up soon ones lol. Ive given up suggesting dates and no replies to it.

I’d rather be left alone now.

For me it's a mix, if we become close then it is what it is, other people I like to be able to chat as and when possible but then have gaps between chats to catchup on the next set of conversations etc otherwise unless you need daily updates then sometimes weekly chats can give you the relevancy conversations

Hard to disagree with any of that! But so many Mners struggle with friendships or human relationships in general that it's not surprising that 'I'm menopausal and this legitimates me loathing everyone' has emerged as a Mn strand alongside 'I run around after everyone, but no one ever puts in any effort back' and 'The school mums are mean and cliquey'.

My friends are my family (as in, they're the closest people to me - not that I don't have any friends outside my family!).

Part of what makes those friendships so special is that we talk about the relationship between us as much as we talk about life stuff – how good are we being at being friends right now, and how can we take better care of our friendship?

That means we've also gone through periods of universal grumpiness or irritability, and we've talked about it: "I'm getting so annoyed with literally everyone at the moment, including you! Do you feel that too? What do we do with this?!"

If it's happening, we both know it, and getting it out on the table allows us to laugh about it and have a good look at it, instead of pretending it's not happening and letting the friendship suffer as a result.

I know not everyone is up for those kinds of conversations, and if your friends aren't (or you aren't) then it's no good to anyone – but it might be worth a try.

Might even bring you all some relief?

I'm a 50 something woman with same age friends and we manage to be assertive with out being offensive and know that taking no crap isn't a euphemism for dishing it out. Quite frankly if you've managed to reach middle age without knowing these things and/or learning how to control your impulse to be unpleasant to your friends, that's a personal character flaw and nothing to do with your age. Age is just an excuse and using it perpetuates negative stereotypes. If your friends don't make you feel good then you need different ones, whether you're 50 or 15.

Totally agree with you op.

In lock down it was the superficial chat that I really missed, just a ten minute chat with a random at the school gate for example, always light hearted fun. Then when you find yourself stuck with that same person for half an hour face to face it's rarely as fun.

I do love deep conversations though, but ive discovered my favourite place to have these are with complete strangers who I deliberately will never see again. Say anything you like, there's no judgement. Deepest darkest secrets can be explored. I get this via solo holidays but in a group iyswim. Yoga retreats, hiking trips etc at least 4 hours travel away!

I get it.

Here's the thing. People are messy. I don't mean living in a messy house, I mean that people are emotional mistake making eejits, or they're robotic carnage causing eejits, and everything in between. It's human nature and it's all about what sort of stuff you can tolerate.

We say things we don't mean in the heat of the moment. We do stupid things if we are upset or angry. We do stupid things if we are happy and full of energy. We are jealous and covetous, or too carefree with our time etc. We want to be friends with people who match our ideals and behaviours without realising that we're all messy as fuck underneath. Some people want to try everything and end up addicted to something whereas some people try them and get away unscathed. We are riddled with trauma and some of us are not. How we handle that trauma dictates our lives. People who have everything they want are entitled when it comes to things they suddenly get told "no" for, whereas some who have everything feel empty and hollow because they've never had to scrimp and save for it.

These are generalisations yes, but we are all on a spectrum of mess somewhere along the line, and depending on where you are it means you might have a higher or lower tolerance for other people's mess.

I have a handful of longtime friendships that I've nurtured, and I cherish them very much, but I value my own time and space enough to set very solid boundaries that mean I don't let people fuck with my peace. This means I have a low tolerance for getting to know new people unless they understand this.

I can somewhat relate to your feeling of irritation, and also to your feeling that we are all as bad as each other! And we are all working, busy, children, parents...nobody has loads of time, and then when you do make time there is pressure for everyone to be in good form. The interactions with local acquaintances are more frequent and low pressure, so yes they can be easier.

But at the risk of being trite I think some of it is menopause. It does affect mood, tolerance, and shit-giving, and with old friends they are generally the same age as you so we are all going through it together.

Editing to add: I wouldn't burn any bridges or bin any friends - we may all be less irritable in five years time .

I really agree with this. We all have our difficult periods but constantly being grumpy? No.

My friends have literally saved my life.

Yes, I think this is fair. I'm 52 and my friendships, many of them longterm, are important to me, as well as fun, sustaining and generally entirely 'hassle'-free. My life would absolutely be poorer without them.

I think you sound bad-tempered and irritable, OP. In your shoes I'd be asking myself what on earth was causing this short fuse?

I don't buy for a moment that menopause somehow causes the scales to fall from your eyes -- I think this is a Mn myth aimed at justifying misanthrope, like the Mn misunderstanding of 'introversion'.

Obviously, don't have friendships if you don't want them, OP, but I don't think you should make it be about some kind of general philosophical framework, just about you and why it is you seem to have surrounded yourself with people you neither like nor respect.

I don't relate at all tbh although I am 50. I don't find my friends irritating at all.

I do sometimes find my teens and my DH irritating though! :-)

I am really glad of my four or five really close friends with whom I can share what is going on with me, my family, my life, my worries, my plans and ambitions, and also hear what is going on with them, both good and bad.

I like meeting up one to one and having a good old heart to heart with each of them.

One of them is my oldest friend from school, we were 11 years old when we met. It is so nice to have a friend from so far back, who remembers school and what we were like then.

I love my friends and my life wouldn't be what it is without them. Their support, kindness, honesty, occasional kicks up the arse, coffee/wine dates, laughs, have meant everything to me.

What I would say though, is that if I were 'grumpy, irritable, intolerant' -- I wouldn't expect people to want to be my friend nor would I want a friend who is (always) like that. We all have our moments, but not all the time.

It's a Mumsnet vibe that you should be able to be an antagonistic, uncompromising grump and yet deserve affection and understanding from your partner/friends/colleagues. No thx.