To be horrified at how much worse the "grooming gangs" actually were than I thought

What do you mean? Why on earth do we need "Gaza independents" in the UK? Gaza policy is not going to improve the lives of their constituents in the UK and that's the MPs main duty surely? Or are you suggesting that UK MPs now owe a duty to the constituents of other foreign countries? Because that's not exactly how things work.

It was a failure by the police to act and gather sufficient evidence. Sex offending is outrageous- but it is hard to prosecute beyond a reasonable doubt. The amount of resources you need is vast. You also need to support victims who, quite often, will return to circumstances where they will meet their abusers or those who are aware they have been abused. Predators like previously abused victims. They rarely give credible evidence if they dare to speak up.

What should have happened is a lot of preventative measures to protect these girls by preventing these predators from getting access to them.

Starmer set up and changed the rules on evidence to get more men, inc Pakistani men prosecuted, men were jailed for these crimes in the 90s, 00s and 10's... late year 22 men jailed for crimes committed in Calderwood.

But you and others aren't interested, its just about telling mis truths and making up alternative "facts"... i.e 100s of 1000s of girls raped... really? in Rotherham, its UP TOO 1200 girls over a 20 year period, terrible but not 100s of 1000s.

We know why you re doing this, its about discrediting Labour, you don't give a fuck about children.
You and all the others blaming Lab/Starmer had nothing to say when Sunak failed to implement the nation report findings, nothing to say over the decades these crimes were committed and nothing to say when the Tories slashed child social services and 20k Police, making it easier for men to attack children in care.

Playing Politics with the lives of children

@321user123 I don't think a single person doesn't realise that a few women abuse.

It's not even the main factor... they certainly withheld information due to fears about igniting racial tension..
But the biggest factor really is institutional. It really is not understanding grooming, not thinking of teenage girls as children, thinking of care leavers over sexualised behaviour as "bringing it on thenselves"
And these are still massive factors we battle against today.
The police handled it badly and a part of that was trying to navigate social tensions... but the largest part was just not taking sexual exploitation and coercion as seriously as they should. Not pursuing things because they didn't have cooperation of the girls..
This is what we need to be extremely angry about and working to change.
And instead we hand this over to the far right as some kind of conspiracy about how the police hushed it all up because they just cared so much about the Muslim population. Coz they were just so so "woke"
Flagrant nonsense.
The police weren't woke at all. Their response had nothing to do with caring and everything to do with just not caring.

What is?

You’re stuck in a peppercorn, I never said men don’t abuse or that men aren’t the majority of perpetrators.

i explained in my rather lengthy comment why it’s dangerous to maintain a perspective of only few women abuse.

@Thatcastlethere

In my small sample of personal experience every single Muslim we' know has anyone far greater and deeper connection to the religion than any practising catholic or c of e. The family ties etc are much more strong and pressure.

This is a faith you can't easily and freely leave or say bad things about.

OP you’re having what feels a very strange swing here..

What’s the issue with Gaza independents?
Are you worried of finally having politicians that WILL fight to change the UK for the better?

@321user123

Of course a small % of women abuse but look at facts.
Look at journalist pretending too be drunk and gets predatory men sniffing around her,look at the french lady raped and dragged by her own husband etc

My parents white and are well to do, very big in church. I was middle class. Still a victim.
However I was vulnerable for different reasons. So this rings true.
I was still treated like I was some scum, purely because I was a teen girl so must have been responsible for the desires and actions of grown men.
It’s the view of women and girls not just vulnerable or working class girls. Oh and some of the worst were women for holding up the patriarchal views, the shame heaped on was all by women.. teachers, church, social workers. My mum and aunts.

I think it's in extremely bad fath to suggest that racial tensions were the only reason that the police didn't take these crimes as seriously as they should..

It was said at the time - that there would be race riots if the information became widely known. However I didn't suggest it was the only reason. The class element has been widely discussed & was always apparent. Working class white, black and brown girls/women rank amongst the very lowest for consideration in UK society.

Well Keir has admitted his failures himself so probably should resign if he had integrity. But, as we've since since July, he hasn't so he won't.

@Bromptotoo in excerpts from the select committee, KS was asked why there was not one single prosecution from X to x.

He said that was damming.

KS said at the time it was reliable witness rules that caused issues.

Apparently he then changed those rules.

I understand that.
and you’re right I did merge two topics, the first part still stands. There’s a really significant portion of women abusers of children both as infants/toddlers AND as primary/secondary age children.

again, just for the avoidance of doubt as I’ve seen someone mention, in no way I want to derail the conversation from what we’re discussing because these girls have been ignored enough and as a society we have failed them!

however I personally really dislike when some people go on a personal crusade of “all men” abusers are of both genders sadly and we often have this perception that a woman is safe vs a man which is quite not the case and it’s important to remember that in a conversation like this, as we don’t want to wake up another 20yrs from now realising we accidentally allowed some abuse to pass by because of perception..
(I hope this makes sense, as it’s just a stream of thought)

I had a similar experience to these girls but my abuser was white and mostly acted alone. But there were plenty of men around. And plenty of teen girls.
The police saw me as responsible. As did my family. As did school and social services. I remember a police sergeant screaming at me once.
As you say as if I must have been responsible in part. I was certainly not seen as a victim, more the perpetrator and I got very good at hiding my injuries. I completely agree with you that this is how it’s been portrayed to us all. It was even portrayed to me as the victim. I fully believed it was my fault.

@OneAmberFinch caveat.
Those are the ones we know about,look at Sarah Sharif's killer,he worked our system and deliberately targeted vulnerable polish girls to marry to get in and then family members follow.

Once a root is established it seems it's very easy to bring lots of family in especially with cousin marriage.

Was there a monumental failure by the CPS. In how many cases did they refuse to prosecute where in fact, on the rules then in place, it's clear they should have done?

My impression is that it was the police rather than the CPS that failed to act.

The fact that it was even a consideration is appalling. I really don't care how many other lame excuses they also used to justify their inaction.

@SleepToad I can't verify who exactly ordered this but apparently police forces were told not too make arrests in 2008 because the girls had made their choices.

@Thatcastlethere

Quite.
There's deep connected networks at play with family connection, a brotherhood connection, tentacles reaching into the council,the police force everywhere.

Women's hour on radio 4 was reporting at the time on this. Parents were interviewed who tried to get help. One was told by Rotherham social services that his daughter had made a "lifestyle choice" to be a prostitute . She was 13.

the whole problem is that Pakistani men view white girls as less than human and the powers that be were scared to investigate because the liberal left would cry racism.

heads need to roll. We need apply laws equally across the UK. Not that long ago the archbishop of Canterbury said certain area of the UK should be under sharia law! The left are hugely to blame and anyone who questions the actions of these men are still viewed as racist

I think it's in extremely bad fath to suggest that racial tensions were the only reason that the police didn't take these crimes as seriously as they should..

Why bad faith?
Btw I don't think that anyone would say it was the sole reason. There was clearly also glaring contempt for the girls themselves, so I suppose a classist element.
But racial tensions were a big factor. No bad faith there, extreme or otherwise.