To wonder if 'Big Food' are up in arms about weight loss injections?

How funny you ask

I’m a tax partner at a leading consultancy firm.

so yes - I know exactly how tax policy works, I’ve been on working groups for hmrc and hm treasury - have you?

there are many aspects that go into tax policy - and sometimes that is actually dictated by public sentiment even if it doesn’t always make financial sense

Obesity itself is NOT an illness - it’s a symptom of something else

Many experts don’t agree with that assertion.

People aren’t expecting taxpayers to fund them long term (and let’s just remember here that a lot of people taking them will be taxpayers themselves). If at some point in the future they are funded via the NHS long term, it will be because it has been decided that the cost of funding them long term outweighs the cost (to the taxpayer!) of obesity related illnesses. Do you know how taxes work? It sounds like you think people can just request something is paid for via taxes, and it just happens!

And @Heretodaystillheretomorrow

this from a quick Google.

Obesity itself is NOT necessarily an illness - it’s more often a symptom of something else

genuine response to your point - in all of those situations, yes there are causes that could have been managed. But medical treatment is generally the only solution to all of those problems - you need treatment for injuries or cancer

medical treatment is not necessarily the only solution to dealing with obesity

its not easy for anyone to lose weight through exercise and diet and takes willpower but it’s a solution that will last a persons lifetime without other medical intervention.

Also weight loss injections don’t necessarily lead to people eating more nutritious food or exercising to increase strength, agility and cardiovascular capacity for longevity.

injections deal with the symptom rather than the cause

so yes - buy them, but don’t expect taxpayers to fund them long term

caveat to the above is that there are people who genuinely cannot lose weight eg due to thyroid issues, PCOs- but I’m sorry, that is simply not the case for many

I think they will adapt - they will start creating special diets to go withe the shots for one thing. Or marketing food that appeals to people taking the shots.

I'm also not convinced that even if their use increases, it's ultimately going to mean long term changes to diet. I think it's going to be a lot more complex set of interactions.

This is very much how I feel. I am 42. I have spent my entire adult life losing and then gaining the same 5 stone. I am a champion dieter, I am REALLY GOOD at dieting. I probably know more about the science of food and exercise than the majority of my slimmer friends as a result. Losing weight is my life's work - how depressong is that? I can lose weight, miserably, slowly, whilst hating life - sometimes a stone, sometimes 3, sometimes 5. It always goes back on with a little extra for insurance purposes. It's exhausting.

I never saw my obesity as a medical problem. I never really thought there could be physical reasons for why my every waking moment was consumed by thoughts of food or why, 2 hours after a big meal, I would be ravenous again - and yes, I do mean ravenous. I think some people who have never struggled with their weight think fat people are referring to a gentle hunger or a slight empty feeling when they mention this. It's not - it's pure desperation and not something that can be ignored.

Since I started on Mounjaro, I still get a healthy hunger at mealtimes but that unbearable famished compulsion has gone. As I say, I never thought it was a medical problem, but medication has fixed it. My GP tells me that the prevalent thinking amongst his colleagues is that, for people with obesity, hormones are out of whack and Mounjaro regulates this, allowing obese people to exercise the willpower that they always had, which is no higher or lower than that of the general population.

I work in SEN and have described Mounjaro to interested parties as my reasonable adjustment. Happy to pay to remain on a maintenance dose for the rest of my life if the NHS doesn't catch up with the science.

Good example of what’s bonkers about this! Absolutely mad that people think they dont need to exercise for overall health because they are taking weight loss injections

total lack of personal responsibility

this Isn’t a money saver for the NHS necessarily. To be blunt as any economist will tell you, people will get ill and die from something in the end. The work increasing survival rates for cancer and heart disease in the past 50 years has meant people live longer and die from more expensive things instead. Reduce diabetes and increase the amount of people dying from expensive illnesses of old age.

I think those who lose all the weight to achieve their goal will consider gyms because they’ll no longer need to be trudging away on the treadmill for hours to lose a few pounds only to gain them (with some friends) back again.

Instead they can focus on fitness and maintaining their new bodies without being ‘the fat one’ in the gym- with all the connotations and stereotypes that come with that image.

I am on mounjaro for my diabetes - according to my diabetic nurse I will be on it permanently.

I am diabetic due to the years of my IBD being controlled with steroids, not exactly my own fault. As I’ve gotten older it’s been harder to shift the weight gain that the steroids have caused. I’m my 20’s and 30’s I could easily drop a stone within 4 weeks now I can’t - my diet isn’t horrendous, I don’t drink alcohol or smoke anymore

They don’t just hand it out to everyone, it’s incredibly difficult to get it prescribed even for its intended use. I just met the criteria to get it and I mean by the skin of my teeth. I was happy to pay for wegovy myself. I haven’t told anyone I am on it due to all the negativity around it.

As for the question in the op, I can see a rapid decline in fast food restaurant profits. But then there will always be people who will eat fast food, however they won’t be able to keep up the profits which means it will only get more expensive

I know its different for different people but personally exercise is counter productive for me in terms of losing weight, I am ravenous if I exercise and nearly always eat more than I expend.

Its great for my heart, my balance, my muscle, my bone denisity, my MH, my strength but not weight loss or maintenence.

Who says they didnt discover them sooner, just quietly taking them, over time.

Its only as they have become more known that celebs are saying they're using them

Yes the medical problem is obesity so you dont have to worry.

I work in the leisure industry and we've seen a stark loss in fitness memberships since October of which weightloss injections are highlighted as a reason.

However we need to adapt and change messaging that injections are about changing diet it won't do anything for your physical fitness which seems to be getting lost.

Haven’t read the full thread but funnily enough just read this

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/19/magazine/ozempic-junk-food.html

No, I'M Spartacus!

@Namechangedforthis25 there are loads of conditions that are caused by individual's actions or inactions. For example stress is a huge contributing factor to several serious conditions so would you say - people need to take responsibility for their stress levels and do some meditation etc ... Why should NHS have to treat people who caused their own illness?

Me too, I’m also a neuroscientist.

Interesting. And plausible. I wonder why you didn’t just say that though, rather than all the faux naive ‘I just don’t understaaand’?

That the companies manufacturing the drugs need a new one to push people on to to succession plan now that things like statins have reached market saturation.

I questioned why celebrities, known to get their hands on all kinds of off-label quick fixes (for example ADHD drugs) hadn't discovered these drugs sooner

What is your hypothesis?

As I'm a neuroscientist, I have to laugh at an ozempic evangelical telling me to read research 'carefully this time' or 'educate myself'.

The things I could tell you about pharmaceuticals that you don't want to hear...

Also I never said they were approved for weight loss for 40 years, so perhaps you also suffer from reading incomprehension. I questioned why celebrities, known to get their hands on all kinds of off-label quick fixes (for example ADHD drugs) hadn't discovered these drugs sooner.

I (as a person of lowish BMI but with ADHD) am interested in the 'noise quietening' aspect of the drugs, because I've heard that they could be useful, in some cases for ADHD people. I wonder how long it might be before this comes into play?

Every thread on WLI at least one person posts that it 'stands to reason' that WLI will save the NHS money because of the costs of obesity. But it isn't necessarily as clear cut as people seem to think. Exactly this analysis has been done for both Ozempic and Mounjaro as part of the NICE evaluation process and at current prices these drugs are only projected to be cost-effective for a subset of the licensed population.

For example, the NICE appraisal for Mounjaro explicitly states that while it is expected to be cost-effective for adults with an initial BMI of at least 35 kg/m2 and at least 1 weight-related comorbidity, it is not likely to be cost-effective for adults with a BMI of 30-35 kg/m2 and at least 1 weight-related comorbidity. Let alone people with obesity and no weight-related comorbidities.

Of course, this balance will change if the companies drop the drug price and when they come off patent. But at the moment they remain very expensive and it is not a given that the drug cost will be offset by other savings.

Why not take some time to google and educate yourself. Both on how drugs are approved and the history of these drugs, and also read what was written again. Carefully this time. Not one person wrote these drugs were aapproved for weight loss 40 years ago. 15 years of testing, and then used for diabetes, in different guises, then ongoing testing and trials. Before being approved for weight loss in the last year or two, does not aapproved for weight loss for 40 years.

the things people write. Good lord.