DS wants to charge

That is such a horrible attitude.

When a student, my son used to do some work for me — I would subcontract some jobs to him and pay him (generously). That enhanced his income and meant that he didn’t have to do shifts in a coffee shop or whatever. Presumably that is what the OP’s son and his band mates are doing: working as musicians to supplement their maintenance loans and top ups from their parents?

This is so selfish and disappointing. Hope he wakes up and realises.

The concept of 'giving back' which is hanging over this thread - sometimes implicitly, sometimes explicitly stated - makes me feel quite uncomfortable. Isn't the whole point of being a parent putting your whole self in without any expectation or guarantee of 'getting something back'? Children aren't an investment we expect a return on. If anything, the 'return' is their going off into their lives and making a success of whatever it is they do, which this young man seems to be doing. I am perhaps not particularly objective as I have first-hand experience of an extreme version of the 'return on investment' model of parenting (won't go into details), but the discomfort I feel about this scenario is because it's at the top of that particular slippery slope.

The band issue complicates this case. It does seem to be making a deliberate and quite mean point if you pay all the others but not him (quite apart from the fact, as many have said, that it's the band rather than the individual members that command a fee). If he were a solo musician or a DJ I could imagine a light-hearted 'oi, don't you think you should perhaps play as our present?' and maybe an agreement on a lower fee than usual.

I'm also a bit baffled at the horror over no birthday/Christmas presents (to the extent of calling this young man 'grasping' and 'self-absorbed'). To mention an anecdote from upthread, I'd have been utterly horrified if my early teen child had spent 65 quid (!) of their own hard-earned money on a present for me, and would wonder what messages I'd been sending them, while also being very touched and moved - but I'd certainly be telling them not to do that again. My late teen/young adult dc didn't give me anything for Christmas either, but they are kind, engaged and engaging, sensible human beings who function very independently and are perfectly happy to help out ad hoc (e.g. looking after their little sister). That's enough for me.

I am still getting my head around the fact that this boy (adult!) has never gotten his parents a present and perhaps even moreso, that the OP and her husband haven't set him straight on that many, many years ago. It shows such a lack of care, thoughtfulness, human decency etc that I'd worry about the values I'd raised my children with. Charging to play at the party is of a piece with it.

I'd have followed this up with,

Me: Oh. I see. That's okay, then. I will fully treat you as an adult then and won't be supporting you anymore while you finish your degree. You will need to pay your own way going forward.

As I imagine you are heavily subsidising him in life (housing, food, transport, etc) so he can finish his degree like the rest of us with university students.

Sorry but did you not bring him up to buy you presents? That’s what parenting is about.

From the age of about 5 we involved our children in choosing and wrapping presents ‘from’ them to the rest of the family. As they got older and had pocket money/earnings they would buy them, obviously, but we still have little ideas meetings to avoid duplicates and offer inspiration.

If you’ve just been spraying money at him and not at the same time discussing with him what nice things he could do for his father, or your DH not offering ideas about what you might like for your birthday, then you have created the monster I’m afraid.

I don't think they're 'mean' exactly. I. think they're incredibly naive to suppose a son who has never had the basic human decency to give either of his parents a birthday or Christmas present is suddenly going to jump to attention when it comes to gifting a much larger professional service to them at a celebration.

I find it odd that you’ll pay his band mates but not him. Of course he’s not going to be happy with that- who would be?
I think you’re being really mean.

It can take a long time to see your parents as people and I think he’s probably just a bit oblivious. Particularly if he buys thoughtful gifts for other people.

I actually would mention to him feeling a bit hurt and unappreciated by his attitude to you more generally. And would include the gifts in that chat. Hopefully then the penny will drop and he will be embarrassed and make more effort. Although awkward (and I get your point about not wanting to ask for gifts) I think that’s better than feeling silently hurt by him and not giving him a proper opportunity to fix things.

Also, if not now then when? You’re at an in between time where you are still supporting him and he’s still young, so it’s ok to have “parenting” type discussions still. But in 5 years if he’s still a bit useless and takes you for granted the dynamic will be too entrenched. I honestly think it’s worth the discussion now rather than just hoping for him to change with time. Also because it’s not too late for him to do something thoughtful for your big birthdays.

Doesn’t have to be a big drama - but just explaining why you are feeling a bit hurt. He might have his own side of things too. And this type of honest chat is how relationships improve. I’d get another band though so he doesn’t see it as part of a guilt trip to do this specific thing (which is a bit of a grey area).

If it was one three hour job, absolutely. Fucking hell

It's pretty obvious really. This is something he could do in lieu of a present for his parents when he doesn't normally buy for them and wouldn't cost him any more than his time. It's quite normal for people to give gifts for people's important birthdays and people often give home made gifts if they have that skill. This is along similar lines.

I think if I were the parent, I would see what my son does/decides as it may reveals his character/values. I agree with you @CompleteOvaryAction that I would be disappointed if he either expects a payment or choose to do another gig and not attend.

If I were the son, I would either not charging or charge and use the money to buy a present for my parents.

This is a family event that he would otherwise attend. Taking care of his band for the evening, setting up and performing will mean he will miss alot of the party. Sounds like he doesn't want to do it but getting paid would sway him. I think it is unreasonable to expect him to miss the majority of a family event. The investment in his music career is a seperate matter. If he was organising a big family party and instead asked you to do the catering over being a guest how would you feel?

my bil is an electrician and he absolutely does do work for our family for free. my parents help them out a lot by babysitting their child. My DP sorts out any computer issues my parents have. I've done legal work for the family for pretty much free. My mum is really good at sewing so does clothing alterations for free. My other sibling makes cakes and sells them professionally but doesn't charge family. Her partner's family own a holiday home they let out to family for free.
Isn't that how family works? tbh usually we all offer to pay something but the recipient refuses with the expectation it will all work out in the end.

Me and my siblings have also bought our parents presents since we started being old enough to shop independently (so from about 12 onwards). Obviously inexpensive stuff then, nice stuff as soon as we had part time jobs. The DS is, what, 20, 21 and has never bought his parents so much as a box of chocolate for Christmas, he sounds entitled and selfish to me.

OP has specified they would pay his bandmates so not sure why so many people are querying that. I'd probably have a chat with him but if he really couldn't see my POV it might be unfair to reduce his support during his last year at uni, but I would only be buying him very token presents for christmas/his bday from now on and wouldn't be letting him move back in after uni/offering him reduced rent.

I would never expect any of the talents in my family to undersell themselves. But I suppose if you're the person that expects electrical work/ tailoring/ cake making for free then this us why you're focused on this. If a live band is outside your budget then try something you can afford.

It’s a band. The band is more than four individual musicians; it is an entity that has expenses and equipment (how do they get the drum kit there? And the amps, mics, mixer etc?) and bookings, and needs rehearsal time and planning and can’t drink and enjoy themselves during the party. You’re paying the band, not the individual musicians. In addition — what sort of music do they play normally? Would they have to learn some new songs to cater to their parents’ generation?

It would have been nice had the band decided to charge you expenses only and make a gift of their time, but very unfair of you to demand it, especially as your plan would be to pay other members of the band but not your son.

What you should have done was invite them all to the party and tell them that they’d be welcome to bring their instruments and have a bit of a jam if they wanted to. You’d probably not be able to get them off the stage then.

What is “at cost” for a musician though?
Is it free because he is just standing up there and playing or do you try and calculate the cost of travel, maintaining the instrument, speaker hire, hours of time in rehearsal to learn the required/requested songs? It gets a bit murky, which is why creatives tend to be undervalued as us non-creatives struggle with the lack of tangible resources we’d expect to pay for eg. paying for oil and parts but not time to service the car at a mechanic.

But, presumably in that situation, also at a time convenient to him? Not a specific time on a specific date. And particularly if it wasn’t just him, but a team of people that work together then I think if you want certainty you have to be willing to pay, even if you’d hope for a discount / freebie.

It's a difficult one. They might be turning down a booking to play. I think you need to pay the going rate if you want them. It's a whole evenings work not just a few minutes.

When you're a musician you are inundated with people who want a freebie. This is how he wants to make his living and he's right to make sure he's paid.

It's also possibly pertinent to how I feel, that he's never bought either me or his Dad a birthday or Christmas present, or ever spent any money on us at all (he's generous with his friends and sister though, which is good to see).

I can see why you're hurt by his attitude towards charging you for services however it seems perfectly in keeping with a boy who's been allowed (yes, allowed) to grow up selfish, grasping and self-absorbed to the point he has reached adulthood without ever buying either of his parents a birthday or Christmas present. And all seemingly without comment or challenge from either of his parents.

Does your daughter buy you Christmas or birthday presents?

He does not sound like a particularly pleasant boy but you've allowed this. The current issue seems like relatively small fry compared to the larger picture.

This is how I feel about this situation as well.

It feels a bit like OP has asked the son to play thinking they wouldn't have to pay him. The subsequent posts feel a bit like a test of loyalty. Just because OP did a lot of things for her parents for free, does not mean her kids have to do the same.

I also don't like the "he's only there because of us" attitude. First off, they are his parents. If they can afford it, why would they not pay for his education? Secondly, I am pretty sure that his hard work has also gotten him where he is today and the fact that he thinks his services should be paid for means that he is considering his own worth as an artist.

At the fact that he'll likely be playing for hours, which is tiring. He does not get enjoy the wedding solely as a guest, as he is there to entertain other guests. It's only fair that he would be paid for professional services.

Two separate issues. One the payment for the party - not sure why but I feel that if you are paying the rest of the band well why not pay him as well? Surely it's no big deal. And if he hasn't offered well it could cause some bad feeling if you challenge it which you do not want overshadowing your big occasion. Let him enjoy playing and knowing he is earning at the same time.

A much bigger issue IMO is the Christmas and birthday gifts 😮. This is just dreadful - is he not embarrassed every occasion that he has nothing for you?! Have his siblings not told him to not be a wanker?!

After the party and things are back to normal, yes I would definitely ask a trusted relation or friend to find a way to discuss this with him and get him to grow the hell up!

If he was my son, I would hope he would do it at cost.

And first prize for most obtuse comment of the thread goes to...