DS wants to charge

They did teach and model it, it says so in her post. However, and quite rightly, they stepped back from this when he reached teens and had his own allowance (still their money) as they felt it was something he should do willingly, having had it modelled to him for years. Hd didn’t !!

My father was a professional musician and was often asked to play at family events. Oftentimes, he would play for free and the remaining members of his group would be paid for their services. For my wedding and significant events for his grandchildren and godchildren, he would pay the other musicians out of his own pocket.

As for my cousins, when they were music students, they would provide a free gig for exposure or a low rate beneath professionals.

But I also think as a parent that my job is to help shape the sort of adult who doesn't only think about themselves or what's in it for them.

Well, yes - but that doesn't manifest only in buying presents for parents/giving them services for free, nor does the opposite manifest in not doing those things. My eldest is pursuing a very altruistic, helping, vocation-type career. Both of my older two would do anything for their sister (and tbf for each other too, if push came to shove). Eldest was off yesterday and made me a coffee unprompted while I wfh. Middle one is a whizz in the kitchen and will cook for us or randomly make us smoothies, bruschetta or whatever. But they didn't get me anything for Christmas and (to use an analogy) if I asked middle one to cater my birthday party, he might well ask 'what're you paying?'

It’s not as simple as him rocking up to a venue, pulling out a guitar and playing songs - there will be band practice which would normally mean the hire of a space (costing him money), sound system hire (costing him money), insurance (costing him money), also simply paying for his time and skill. People in creative industries are often asked for freebies as people don’t see their value and want a favour, telling them that exposure should be enough. It would be a lot more respectful to offer to pay for his time, especially if the alternative is to hire another professional. I know he’s your son, but he’s also an adult with a skill that you’d like to utilise.

I get that this is upsetting but you raised him. Didn't you plan birthday gifts with him for his dad when he was a child and your DH do the same for you? You only learn about giving by modelling it as a parent.

In terms of his band, as someone in a creative industry it is a constant that people expect creative services for free but wouldn't dream of giving their own non creative services free. I imagine he's being taught on his course to treat his band as a business and is just doing that.

But the lack of gift giving sounds incredibly selfish but is on you I'm afraid if you didn't teach and model it from childhood.

At this point, I would ask DS if he would rather attend as a guest or as a band - and I would offer to pay him. No point is creating more bad feeling about this.

I would then gently suggest to him that he uses money raised from gigs to support himself a bit more and that you will dial back a bit what you give him. I would be basing this on his lack of present giving, etc. not specifically on the party. It would probably be good for him to realise how much you do for him and to be grateful, even if he doesn't explicitly owe you anything.

Young adults can be selfish, you can recover from this. It seems from posts on here though with posters saying they would expect their parents to pay them for every bit of time they give up, that not every family operates in this way.
I have some paid skills that I would not dream of charging my parents for - but I would charge a cousin, etc at a basic rate.
Renew how you do things from now on.

I'm self employed.

If my closest family all me to work for them, they insist on paying the going rate. It's usually the further out family that think I should do them a favour. They haven't seen all the time and effort I've put into building my business, and think it's 'easy money'.

It seems unfair that you are asking him to work for nothing, when he can just attend and enjoy it instead. If it was me, I would be insisting on paying.

I can see your point of view, but I personally would pay.

The key word in your response is ‘someone’ That someone is her son.

I think your attitude is hugely indicative of today’s society…that no matter what someone has done for you, you owe them nothing…not even a small £3.00 token gift on their birthday or Christmas.

Do you think his attitude will change when his parents are elderly and maybe one has passed? It will still be “but why should I visit them? Why should I help them? That’s not fair on me”

All British family values (not all but most) have been lost. Family means nothing anymore and if people like you wouldn’t help a family member, a poor old lonely neighbour had no chance.

I work in a multicultural school, and I see a vast difference with how different cultures care for family members. Sadly British families are in the minority when it comes to caring for parents and grandparents. Absolutely NOT ALL British families are like this, but many are.

Wouldn’t the band normally charge a set amount for the whole evening rather than separate payments?

But as @ChannelFiveDrama says, it’s the parent’s job to shape who we are. Spoilt, entitled adults are usually made not just appeared overnight. I also supported my son through uni, have helped it out financially etc which is not easy as a single parent, but he is not the slightest bit entitled.

I would have paid his band as a band not as individuals.

Good luck sorting this one out OP! It's clearly not a simple one, but I'd focus on the spirit of giving and seperate it from the gig. Perhaps apologise for expecting it to be a gift, tell him you'll pay the band (it's true it might all go into a single pot that gets split equally between them, which makes things tricky for him) and work on the teaching of giving in general.

Our DS will be in his third year as a music student and we mentioned we'd like his band to play for some of the evening. He wants us to pay him going rate for his services.

You wanted his band to play so you pay the fee for the whole band, not the band's fee minus his bit or hand each one of them their individual fee in an envelope and leave out DS.

There's obviously a lot of backstory to this and you feel he doesn't appreciate the support you have given him but this incident is not the time to address that. If you want the band to play, then you pay for the whole band. Or if you're not happy about paying his band, including him, then you should hire a different band.

@CompleteOvaryAction do the band not just have a set 'band rate' though? I've booked bands before, and never paid each individual member a fee, just 'the band'. So just pay 'a fee' and let them split it equally!

As for your son not buying you and your husband birthday and Christmas gifts...that's a separate issue, and down to how you've brought him up! He sounds very spoiled and entitled, so maybe time to change this with new expectations! You reap what you sow I'm afraid 🤷‍♀️

Several of my family members have been in bands all my adult life (I'm old). When it comes to gigs for family of any of the band, it has always been done willingly and for free.

People are forgetting that bands enjoy playing, and usually enjoy those sorts of gigs the most, where they have a receptive audience, it's usually fairly local, and they can mingle with family and friends before and after, and often interact during. It's a lot of fun and enjoyed by everyone.

What has shocked me here is that the OP seems to have accepted no gifts throughout this selfish young man's life. Why did the parents not take the young child out, from about the age of 2, separately, to choose a surprise gift each birthday and Christmas - for Mum, Dad, fond Aunty, sister etc?

I have just done that for the first Christmas my young grandson will remember. Mum and Dad were thrilled, and Grandson was over the moon to see their faces light up with a gift he had chosen specially.

I have no advice now for the OP. You reap what you sow.

OP has explained she has always modelled gift giving and generosity to DS, and he does give gifts to his friends and others so she has done well.

He has a blind spot where he sees his parents as just ‘providers’ (OP’s word) that needs to change.

@ChannelFiveDrama has nailed it.
I mean, seriously, who the fuck charges their own parents like this? Especially when said parents are subsidising university studies.at the same time. Totally alien to me.

The majority of my immediate family are self-employed in a variety of professions and not one of them would charge a close friend or family member in this way. The person receiving the service would offer to.pay and the person providing it would wave them away,.possibly with the throwaway suggestion that a.drink might be bought at some point in the future. And that would be the end of it.

He probably should have said ok mum but there’s a band rate rather than saying I will have to be paid.

If their son has never bought them a present and is grabby then that’s got to be down to the parenting style. How many of us on here have not experienced that because we wouldn't have tolerated it while raising them.

If your adult kid is an entitled brat you really need to look inside yourself as to why they are.

Well the DS has shot himself in his foot.

He could have got his friends to do a free gig in return for good food and drinks and repaid them on their family events in the same way.

Instead he’s shown his mum yet again that she and his dad don’t matter.

I hope his gravy train is massively reduced.

I think you're wrong. You should be paying the full band rate and they do whatever it is bands do about splitting the proceeds amongst themselves, including your son. What were you going to do, line them all up and hand each one cash except your son? Weird.

It's not, it's a wake up conversation about him giving a little back when it won't actually cost him a thing.

I have a child at university, who we subsidise considerably and are happy to do so. He would NEVER behave like this. Never. Because he appreciates everything we do for him.

OP “Hi DS. You know how DH and I are planning a big party that we’re inviting friends and family to and are already talking about months in advance? Instead of being one of the family at this big event, will you be one of the entertainment staff, stay sober and provide the music rather than being able to dance with everyone and talk to people?”
DS (Doesn’t really want to be stuck performing at the party feeling like a second class guest compared to great aunty Maureen and the couple from across the street. Is also aware that DM thinks family should do things for each other for free and knows he can’t ask his musician mates to do it for free.) I (don’t want to but I) can, but you’re planning to pay us right?

100% this

Isn't the whole point of being a parent putting your whole self in without any expectation or guarantee of 'getting something back'?

I am a huge subscriber to this pov. But I also think as a parent that my job is to help shape the sort of adult who doesn't only think about themselves or what's in it for them. My parents never asked for a thing from me but it was my pleasure to so whatever I could to make their lives easier or happier because, in my experience, that's how loving families operate.

I'm past being bankrolled by my parents but I totally get your point.

I think I'd have the

"I'm disappointed with how you treat us" conversation that he's an adult and you have brought him to think of others and lead by example and he makes no effort to even buy gifts and the one time you ask for one he declines.