DS wants to charge

Not buying gifts is a completely separate issue

I asked the same, I wouldn't guarantee they are good just because they are music students. I watch loads of live music and there are so many bands around that are average at best but are gigging regularly.

I live in South East and work with agents, the only bands earning that sort of money are those doing corporate and private events, or ticketed ones plus weddings, other venues pay nowhere close to that. I have been involved in booking bands and acts for many years and it really isn't that common to get that much.

I accept all your points except the bit about doing it in front of an audience, a joiner can perform in front of an audience, his client and then leaves his work to be inspected, the musicians work is inspected as its presented.

I agree about presents/cards in general but surely at his age he should have reached the realisation himself.

This too. I wonder if said son would from now on be happy to pay for any “services rendered” by his parents? Including, but not limited to, permanent or temporary accommodation, any cleaning, cooking, lifts, financial support, financial loans, legal advice, meals, any hosting or entertaining …. you get the picture.Or should all the services be provided to this young working musician for free? And, as someone has deftly pointed out so many of these are performed by the woman anyway, and her work, services and contribution are clearly worth nothing.

If you want to use the joiner/builder analogy then surely it would be more like.
“Hi electrician DC. Could you stick a couple of new double sockets in the bedroom for me? You’ll be round for my big family birthday party so why don’t you have food with us, then when everyone is relaxing and chatting, you could nip upstairs with your tools and spend a couple of hours putting them in. You’ll need to stay sober enough to operate power tools, but I’m sure you’ll be done just before everyone leaves so you can have a quick drink and say bye before they go.”

He's not even a full time musician, he's a student. Even most FT musicians would perform for their parents for free FFS.

I do understand that it would be nice for them to offer to pay him something but his reaction was shit. It's hard being a musician, people want everything for free/cheap. It's crazy as it's an amazing skill/talent and so much hard work goes into it and it's really undervalued in general but it's his parents, for one night.

@yorktown and @Prettydisgustingactually

I did ask @CompleteOvaryAction earlier on in the thread how good her DS's band is. I assume they are pretty good as they are music students.

Down our way, admittedly south east, a decent band on a Saturday night can earn £2k or more.
I saw an amazing band the other week and their fee was £5k - there was a lot of them and they were amazing, they got punters through the door.

It is, but that’s the choice of the person with the skill, and it’s generally recognised that it’ll be done at time that’s convenient to the one doing the work. The equivalent from this perspective is the OP expecting a team of joiners to carry out some work at a time convenient to her, and for nothing, in front of an audience. I don’t think the two are comparable. Sure, she says she will pay the others - but she’s been very opaque about how much.

Separately, she has an issue about the fact that her son doesn’t buy gifts for her or her husband for Christmas / Birthdays. That should have been tackled some time ago - unilaterally deciding that he should perform for nothing as a gift is unreasonable. Of course, the right thing for him to do could well be to offer to do it for nothing, and her to refuse that offer. But, she hasn’t brought him up that way, and so I don’t know whose fault she actually thinks all this is!!

💯 Perfectly put. I rest my case m’Lord.

ITS HIS PARENTS’ SPECIAL BIRTHDAY!!! It’s not putting up a random shelf on a random evening or getting their adult kids to work a week building a loft for you. He’s also doing a music degree, with a distinct impression that his parents are giving him a lot of financial support to do this. On top of that, some posters are accusing the parents of exploiting their son or “emotional blackmail”!!!

Proves to me, once and for all, that 50% of MN posters are totally 🦇 bat shit crazy and/or thick (often both at the same time as they can’t even be the original post properly so make up that the OP is wanting the whole band to do it for free).

If you were the OP and were having a party with DJ rather than a band, would you be ok if your DS didn't come because he had paid work the same evening?

I'll hazard a guess that maybe you'd be fine with that, but I'd be really disappointed if my son didn't make it because of a job.

Imagine trying to charge your own mother to play some music at her party! YANBU. Hopefully he’ll look back on this one day and be mortified.

It's the OP taking advantage and being cheap.

Not giving anything back?

Wow.

He's being expected to work at a party that he could just attend as a guest. He's being asked to provide entertainment for the guests. Op thinks it's worth paying for. That's hardly nothing! Way to diminish someone's hard work that they have been putting in for, presumably, years!

Op thinks they are worth paying. Surely that says that they are offering something of value!

Jesus it’s his parents joint big birthday ffs. He isn’t even a full time musician. He’s at uni, paid for by mum and dad got the last three years. He’s making money gigging and by the sound of it he is still getting an allowance and not contributing anything from his gig money.

Best thing OP can do is uninvite him and tell him to go out and secure a gig elsewhere and she will find someone else.

Reading some of these comments I can really see why today’s young people are so bloody selfish.

I don’t think he is being unreasonable - the band will have a flat fee for the event. If you hire a proffesinal band how much would it cost? I think artists often get a raw deal, would you expect free treatment if he was a dentist? Or free catering if he was a chef? Why not just invite him as a guest and avoid this argument completely.

It’s teaching that there is give and take in relationships.

At the moment this is adult male is only taking, not giving anything back.

@RockOrAHardplace

The problem with using all these builder / joiner / electrician analogies Vs a jobbing musician is that you are assuming that all time is equal.

If you have a son who is a joiner and you would like him to put up a shelf, I am sure he would do that at a time that he is free and he wouldn't turn down paid work in order to do this relatively simple task.

To ask any musician to give a free Friday or Saturday night gig, you are asking them to give up potentially a huge chunk of their weekly income.

The 2 scenarios are completely different.

It's not a particularly loving act to want your child to provide a chargeable service for free.

Ow come on, if you had a son who was say a joiner, and you needed some shelves putting up, would you expect to pay him the full going rate?

I'm always helping my family and friends out and they reciprocate. Its about mutual respect and appreciation.

My advice in general is to pay attention to how you are bringing up your children from the start.

When it comes to the issue first raised by the OP, I’d suggest booking a jobbing covers band and inviting her son as a normal guest.

When it comes to the presents problem I’d suggest the OP tackles him about the lack of presents to his father and her DH tackles him about the lack of presents to her.

Oh come on, it's their parents asking their son. Not asking some random musician for a freebie.

'angling for a freebie' 😂😂
Perish the thought that he.might like to do something nice for his parents for their big birthday.

Maybe they should accuse him of 'angling for a freebie' the next time he wants to come home during a university holiday.

I think stating you expect to be paid if someone is clearly angling for a freebie is absolutely fine.

All good points. But none that require the statement, 'I'd expect to be paid'. A more appropriate response would be, 'I'd love to do that for you and dad. You'll need to pay my band mates for their time/travel but don't think of giving me anything - it can be my present to you both'