DS wants to charge

Do you really think it's about the money?

I would say something like ‘DS, we are really hurt by the fact you’d want paying rather than performing as a gift to us. We love you and have given you a lot. While we are discussing we are also hurt that you’ve never though to give us even a token birthday or Christmas present, but we don’t want to fall out about it; it’s just a bit of context. We love you and don’t want to fall out about it so will get someone else to play’ and move on and hope he starts to understand.
question- did neither of you ever take him out shopping for presents for the other parebt growing up?

But that's different because:

a) it's not dirty, horrid work

b) your son offered to do it for free, and

c) it wasn't a potential birthday gift for your parents who you never treat who are funding your studies.

I wouldn't hire him on principle. I had a similar thing with a nephew for whom I'd done several favours. The first thing he said when I asked him to babysit was how much he charged. I didn't use him and he missed out on many lucrative future gigs (my kids were older so it wouldn't have been much of a chore).

I don't blame you OP, I'd be very hurt in your shoes.

Quite clearly states in the OP she would be paying band members.

Why would you not pay him? If he’s trying to forge a career in the music industry surely you would want to support him. A friend there could know someone in the industry and say to them I heard this amazing band, opening other doors for his band!
You totally came across as an a* the moment you wrote he wouldn’t be where he is if it wasn’t for us! As parents that’s what we do, we do our best for our children, if you didn’t want to support him why did you have children?

Having read the updates I'm now horribly on the fence with this one. It's very pertinent that he's never given you any presents - the fact this seems to have gone unnoticed/unchecked before now is possibly coming back to bite you on the bum OP! Do your other children give you gifts? How old are they?

I would say absolutely that you weren't expecting the band to play for free, but that you'd hoped this year might be the year he thought about giving you a gift of some kind, whether that's a discount for his part in playing or some other kind of gift, as it's starting to feel hurtful that he never has.

Also, another thought - You are assuming he is just asking for himself. Maybe his automatic response was meaning the bands fee as a whole, because he wouldn't want to ask his bandmates to work for free. You hadn't at that point (or any point?) Said you'd pay the bandmates.

His track record with gifts is another matter.

Whilst we don't expect "payback" it would be nice if he thought to acknowledge our help with a gesture of his time for our special celebration.

But you are expecting a payback, because you’re expecting his band to perform for free at your party.

How do you know that he hasn’t already purchased a special gift or experience for your celebration? You’d effectively be expecting a bigger contribution from him, than other family members.

If it was just him as a solo artist I think it should be gratis. However, not free given it is a band.

I have relatives who are professional musicians and have never asked them to perform for free.

What do they charge?
are they any good?
are they good enough that you’d hire them on their own merits?

DS played at our golden wedding party and we paid the other members of his band. They had to travel and gave up time when they might have been earning elsewhere. We also fed them. The GD also played a song each but they are given pocket money anyway.

You should pay him. In fact, I'd go so far as to say you should insist upon paying him. There is a principle at stake here - don't sacrifice it just to get a "freebie" from your DS. Treat him to value himself and his labour by showing that you value him. Treat him to insist that others value it too, and to put in place proper boundaries, by insisting on valuing it yourself. We model to our children how they should expect to be treated.

As for gifts, they should be voluntary, not stipulated by the gift-giver. If he chose to play for free, that would be his choice. If he chooses to give you another gift, also his choice. It's fine to gently teach our children to show their appreciation for those who support them in life (and at this age, I hope you've been modelling this to him though his childhood and adolescence so he's got the message!), but you don't get to dictate the form in which they do this.

And don't hire another band - that's hurtful to your DS, as him not attending would be to you. Support his efforts in the world of work (it sounds like he's doing great) by paying him and his band mates the going rate. It will be worth it for family harmony and to demonstrate to him that you value him.

I'd pay him and his bandmates the going rate for the evening's work.

But reconsider how much family funding you send his way in future.

This is a good point though. Maybe he just wants to enjoy the party.

Perhaps he is hurt that you don't want to be a guest at your party. Are you other children working at your party?

I hope the conversation followed on - “don’t worry about it then”

and significantly pull back on gifts etc.

I feel like the ‘wanting to charge you’ and ‘never bought us gifts for birthdays/xmas’ are separate issues.

I get feeling hurt that he hasn’t offered to play as some sort of gift, but if he’s never bought you a gift previously then it surely isn’t a surprise that he hasn’t bought you a gift this year. Hurtful, but not a shock.
How did it get to this? How did he make it through childhood without being shown/expected to participate in gift buying. Some of my earliest memories are teaming up with one parent to make/brainstorm/buy for the other parent. Children learn through adults modeling the behavior that you want to see.

He sounds quite selfish and yes, perhaps pull back on buying gifts for him or have a conversation about your expectations regarding birthdays/special occasions going forward. However, this is unrelated to hiring someone (a band) to play (work) at your party.

NRTFT. If your son were a bartender, would you “invite” him to your party to serve drinks to your other guests all night? Would a waiter be expected to serve canapés to your other guests all night? Would a nanny be expected to watch guests’ kids at the party? Would a kitchen porter be expected to wash party dishes all night? You’re not inviting him to your party—he’ll be working the whole time, with some breaks.

It’s really selfish of him when you’ve (presumably) funded his way (at least to some point) through music classes and uni. He’s being an ungrateful diva. He could at least do it as his bday present to you both.

In a way, you are both being a bit ungracious, although I think he is the worse.

The conversation should have gone:

’We’d love you to play at our party. Of course, we will pay you your normal rate’

’Don’t be silly Mum, we are flattered you asked and would love to play. I don’t want money though, given everything you’ve done for me; just pay the rest of the band’.

There is no way I’d pay a child that i was funding through university. Though tbf neither dc would ask.

I would hire someone else and let him know you are going with someone else. It will only cause resentment if he continues to insist you pay him. I don't know what your relationship is like with him, but if it's good he is behaving like a selfish child.

Disagree with almost everyone here. The son should be paid if he is working. He shouldn't be expected to give freebies to parents. He should not be expected to pay back what he has been "given" - raising a child is not a gift to them, it's a choice you make and your responsibility. You forced this world and life on him, he had no choice. Yes, even uni fees if you choose to do it. Because you didn't have to. You chose to. That's not his fault, he was still an inexperienced adult when you chose to.

People are calling him grabby. I think all the parents who expect free labour from their adult kids are being very grabby. Parents raising kids as normal, expecting payback... Doing favours for kids and then throwing tantums when it doesn't mean you get whatever you want out of them. It's so manipulative. You don't own them just because you birthed them. You're not owed anything for birthing them and raising them. If you want him, pay. If you think his music is not worth paying for, get someone else.

I've worked for parents and family for free. Do it regularly, actually.. Not because they're my parents or I owe them for raising me. Not because I'm obligated. But because I just wanted to. Your son doesn't feel he wants to for you. Honestly, that's probably your fault, judging by you attitude and entitlement in this thread. As far as we know, you might always act this entitled and he's putting his foot down.

It's very cheeky that his first words, when you asked him about it, were whether he'd get paid.

In my family we all help each other out without expecting payment if it's something that takes just a couple of hours like this.

However, we'd obviously pay if, say a family member was doing a full day's work.

When your DS is older and gets his own house, he may ask you or his dad to help him do a bit of DIY, ie help put pictures up or paint a room. Your first response wouldn't be to ask him if he's paying you!

The complication here is that you're paying his band members.

I think he should have offered to do it for free though. You may then have decided to pay him!

I'd definitely not use his band and pick an independent one.

You can’t bring in that they helped pay for is education, so they don’t have to pay him.
It’s his free time, if someone is doing you a favour in their free time you pay them.
If they offered him a small payment (mates rates) that would be different, instead they are paying his band mates and not him.
Honestly your children don’t owe you anything just because you gave birth to them.