DS wants to charge

I think he’s a CF tbh. I’m pretty sure if it were my son, and he’s no Mr Perfect, he wouldn’t dream is asking for payment, expenses possibly but not for playing. I’ve always had a present even when he was a student and working at Tesco.

presumably your DS does a few gigs and has cash from them as well as his student finance. Sounds extremely selfish to me.

use someone else.

I think you both have a case.

DS would ideally not charge you. It would be good if he waived his fee as a birthday gift to you (perhaps the first of many!), or as a thank you for all your support for him, or simply because you are family.

On the other hand, it could be a good gesture for you to pay him. As he is still a student and presumably just starting out as a gigging professional, I’d guess he is unlikely to have much spare money. If you are already supporting him financially, then paying him to play for your party could be part of this support, and you are helping him on his way in a profession which isn’t an easy one.

I’d say that in an ideal world you would offer to pay all the band’s usual charges, including paying your DS. And he in turn ideally should refuse to take his part of the fee, and then in good spirits you meet in the middle with a happy compromise.

If he does take a fee, he should certainly give a present.

Maybe in ten years’ time he can afford to gift the entire band fee for your next milestone birthday.

Hope it’s a great party!

yep. If it was just him? You would not be unreasonable.

But this is he and his band. Sounds as if they’re starting out as professionals, have gone through quite a bit of training, education etc. and are hoping to make a career out of this. His bandmates will therefore expect to be paid. And paying his bandmates but not him would be a bit awkward.

It's also possibly pertinent to how I feel, that he's never bought either me or his Dad a birthday or Christmas present, or ever spent any money on us at all (he's generous with his friends and sister though, which is good to see).

does he show his love and appreciation in other ways?

I sort of feel like he still sees us as the "providers", and he as our "dependent" and he hasn't caught up with how the relationship has evolved as he's grown.

now is probably the time to talk about this.

But I would not make it about gifts or birthday gigs. I would marking about evolving relationships, mutual appreciation and you not being a „cash cow“.

Wouldn’t he be missing any work opportunities anyway though to be at his parents’ party?

This reply says what I tried to say, but better. I think you’re being (very) unreasonable. You are emotionally blackmailing your son to perform for no fee at a party where he won’t actually be a proper guest, aren’t you?

It’s easy to be wise after the event, but it would have been good if you’d addressed this the very first Christmas he gave gifts to everyone except you. Oi, DS, what about us?? We don’t want you spending much on us but a bar of chocolate or a new pen would mean a lot .
Unfortunately now this dynamic is established it will be hard to change. It doesn’t mean he doesn’t love you but might mean he notices you want more from him and feels edgy.

Actually I think you’re bing unreasonable not to see it from his perspective. In some respects you are being very hurtful to him?

He may be related, but his band members aren’t, though? What if the band gets a paying gig offer on the same night? Should they forgo their income because it’s your night and he can’t play with them? Do they incur costs (accommodation/travel) in order to be there? Does he, if he’s home from uni and transporting gear for the event? If he attends the party as your guest, he can drink/party/chill with family - if he has a gig he can’t can he? He’ll have to stay sober, have his evening interrupted for set up and sound checks etc. It’s not the same as coming as a guest - from his perspective he may feel deeply hurt that he can’t just come as your guess/son and that you are expecting him to give up his evening to ‘work’… for no fee.

To be honest you have to decide - is he coming as a guest (in which case hire a band/DJ) or is he coming as the hired help (in which case pay him).

You can't pay the rest of the band and not your son. If he plays at your party he's working and isn't mingling and enjoying the party as a guest. If you are paying the other band members it can't be much more to pay for your son. It will cost you more to hire a professional band. Don’t be so mean and pay your son for giving up his whatever night it is.

Getting someone to have a word about a gift is a great idea! Maybe a suggestion of a joint present from all your dc that they contribute to? Offer to pay him as it's work and hopefully the penny might drop when he's faced with putting his hand in his wallet!

I think they would if it was your own child who was the electrician/plumber/builder and it was a couple of hours work AND you were still funding their training. You're also missing out the fact that it's his parents' big birthday. The idea it's to do with the creative industries is a red herring.

Maybe pay his band mates. I don’t think you can expect them to do it for free! x

I think you should support his dream, it's a big deal to have a paid gig and you refusing to pay is sending the message that you don't think his music is worth paying for.

I have a friend who does live music gigs and I always pay to go along and support her when I'm in the area. She might be in a pub with 2 people who have no choice but to listen, but that's not the point.

When my partner started his business, his parents didn't go to him for work even though they used the exact same service with someone else. It's something I've never forgotten. Strangers pay for his service but his own family still don't, even though he's used their services (at full price) several times.

Your offspring don’t owe you anything at all from volunteering to play at your birthday to your future care and support. They are not your pension pot that you pay into and then start drawing out. If you chose to pay his uni fees you don’t get to demand your share in that or sit with a trembling bottom lip because your ‘investment’ won’t now pay out on demand.

Im shocked how this thread has gone, if your son chooses to help or offer things for you it has to be off his own back. If he is indeed inherently selfish and has never bought you birthday or Christmas presents then maybe that’s on you and how you raised him, you’ve obviously never taught or brought up the fact he hasn’t done this?

If it’s a special birthday then let him be a guest, pay a band or DJ and don’t use him to either show off to your friends your investment or get freebies!

How old is he?
How much does he work and earn from any jobs he has at the moment?

I think you should pay him. You’re willing to pay the band and are obviously spending a lot to have this party so aren’t struggling.

Xmas - you need to have a conversation and explain now he’s an adult(?) it would be nice if gifts were reciprocated although it very much depends on age and circumstances if he’s struggling or not.

I think you should pay him. It would be wrong for him to ask his bandmates to play a gig - any gig - for free. And you couldn't deduct his share of that fee, could you? It would be a weird thing to do. What if each band member is asked to pay for free at relatives gigs? They will always be doing favours for family/friends and never make any money.

You are effectively saying that he should give you the gig as a present, but it is up to him what present he gives you on the day. I would understand if you were asking for a discount.

I know people whose kids have become very wealthy - they don't expect special favours from them. Pay up.

Ah this is clearer now. You know he
expects never to spend any money on his parents but wanted him to do something of the kind just once on this special day. He was almost certain to refuse.
I agree that its hurtful but you’re set him and yourself up to feet uncomfortable, and now the next step will be hard- withdraw the request to play at the event or pay him , which will rub in the hurt you are feeling.
in your position I think I would do the latter.

.

Give less and cut the cash or make it based on his behaviours and action

let him get more gigs and fund himself more

it’s v hurtful when you realise your kids can be selfish little buggers - I’ve seen behaviours in mine and called them out on it, changed how we give them money etc so they are aware of our expectations of them as our children and also how much we have done to help them live the lives they want, including what we’ve sacrificed ourselves so they can have the good stuff.

As we getting older and they are too, the dynamics are interesting! Our babies are actually grown adults so need to start making better life choices and learning how the real world works

I am unclear how him expecting payment is any different to the OP expecting it for free. He’s clearly his mothers son! I’d look elsewhere as well, and expect to pay the going rate, which is undoubtedly more than his band charges anyway.

But why do so many people not value the creative arts? Most people wouldn’t expect a builder / plumber / electrician to work for them for free, though would be grateful if they did or got it at reduced rates. But for the arts there’s this belief that people should somehow do things for nothing because there’s no physical product.

I'd say you either pay them all or you don't pay any of them.

If you're hiring them as a band, pay them. Be professional.

And then, keep this in the back of your mind when he wants to return home after his course is over.

Charge him for cleaning, his share of the bills etc etc

“I’ll pay you 4/5 of your nightly rate”? Who knows…seems odd.

But how will she pay them? The band will have a rate for a gig. Is she going to negotiate with each of them, and pressurise them in to performing on the cheap? I expect he’d rather she didn’t do that with his friends / colleagues - it’s beyond embarrassing…

You hire a service, you pay for that service

It’s actually worse than that, because she saying she expects him to come as a guest if he’s not playing, which means the whole band will have to turn down other paying gigs and they all lose out.

i think mixing family / friends and business is generally a bad idea - the OP either offers to pay the going rate for the band (this per person business is odd - that’s not the basis bands are engaged on) or hires someone else. If they offer a discount or to do it for free, then great. If they say they don’t want to do it and he’ll attend as a guest that’s fine. But demanding is not on.