Doesn’t ever work out with the OW

Well, OK, I believe with as much certainty as anyone could given that both men are/were very happy in their new relationships, neither of them were comfortable with their actions and bothbhad regrets, neither of them had ever raised suspicion beforehand and there are/were other circumstances that would make it highly improbable that either of them would.

And I know them and you don't. So, yes, I'm better placed to make a judgement about both of them than you are.

I'm not saying you are wrong in every situation just that you are not right in every situation.

There are as many reasons for having affairs as there are people having them.

It isn’t always a novelty shag though?Clearly it is sometimes but, a lot of the time, it is not. I believe that people can marry the wrong person and be deeply unhappy and then meet the right person and fall in love. Those kinds of affairs can end up in a lasting relationship. Yes it is still horribly painful, for everyone, but the marriage
I agree with this.
My ex has been with the 'OW' for 34 years+.
They are a good match and have a happy life and now going i to retirement with lots of plans, just like me and DH.
Their life is better than the one me and him would have had.

All is good.
Me and ex were limping along. It was becoming pointless. In retrospect the OW did all of us a favour, although it didn't feel like it at the time!

It's you who is actually speaking in absolute terms in terms of your opinion neither of them cheated again.

Its a fact no one in a relationship with another person knows if they have cheated.

There is zero guarantees or fact, it's your belief based on the behaviour the chose to show and your trust in them as a person. Neither of which means it's actually true.

I know my ex cheated. I believe my husband has always been faithful. That doesn't actually mean its true.

And they were actually by the very fact they did in fact have affairs.

it’s probably nice if you’ve been cheated on to think about karma, or ‘once a cheater’, or ‘creating a vacancy’ because that’s easier than accepting that sometimes marriages just aren’t strong enough and they go tits up. It’s hard to walk away from something that’s ticking along, that’s why falling for someone else is the death knell.

Totally agree.

Whatado

It clearly helps you to think in these absolute terms but it doesn't mean you're right.

Just because someone married in their 20s, for example, it doesn't mean that those people are still going to he right for each other for the rest of their lives.

People grow and develop and change. Sometimes, they grow and develop and change in the same direction and sometimes they don't.

That's how I know that neither my dad nor ex husband cheated on their second wives because I know the people they are/were.

My exh has many faults and I'm not oblivious to any of them. The same could be said of my dad. But neither of them were womanisers, or philanders. Neither of them were men who gazed too long in another woman's direction. Neither of them courted female attention. They were both men who wanted to be in loving relationships.

And they were both content to remain in subpar marriages in a 'too good to leave, too bad to stay' situation. Both and children to consider and wider family/social lives and financial commitments and, for both fo them, those things were enough to keep them where they were until they each met someome who made it worth the disruption.

Neither of them should have cheated but they weren't 'cheats' either.

So, yes, I do know, with certainty, tbh, that neither of them did or will cheat on their second wives.

I will say, however, that my dad's second wife never quite felt comfortable with my brother and me because we were a reminder of his previous life and how their relationship started.

And I know my exh's wife has more of an issue with me being the first wife that I will ever have with her having been the OW.

But I would still stay with certainty that my dad did not and my exh would not cheat again.

Well that's OK then.

People who make justifications and excuses and platitudes for affairs, I wonder do they feel the same about other types of abuse that partners display towards their partners?

It is very very rare that an affair doesn't come with a shed load of abuse to the personal being cheated on.

• Still having sex? Removal of informed consent.
• Joint finances? Taking shared finances to secretly fund a second relationship. Financial abuse.
• Constantly lying? Manipulation
• Denying when suspicions are raised? Gaslighting
• Removal of time, money and energy from your kids and shifting it the other person to sneak around. Absolutely shit parenting.

The list is endless.

You don't actually know that either of them remained faithful.

For all of the they never cheated again because they found true happiness stories.

That is something that only the person who cheated in the first place knows. Not their new partners, not their children, friends or colleagues.

Millions of people around the world cheat every day and it never comes out. Those numbers will include people who have already cheated in previous relationships.

What is 100% know is they have already cheated and already displayed all the behaviours and decisions it takes to do so.

And I hate the shifting of blame that happens in cheating and affairs. When the betrayed person doesn't happily move on with a shrug and a oh well they are happier now all worked out for the best. It's labelled bitterness. No the majority of the time it's trauma. Inflicted on them by two other people.

Having an affair, a long-term one anyone, not just a one-night stand thing is not thrilling. It's a very very wrong assumption that people have affairs for the thrill or excitement. There are many reasons people embark on affairs, the "thrill" is pretty low down in the list.

Some people get married when they should be splitting up. Then they have a baby as another sticking plaster.

My friend that has an affair had been married for 2 years to someone he started dating as a teen. Their marriage was ostensibly happy but he met someone he really adores. That was 20 years ago and they’ve been married for 15. He’s not someone that found the affair bit thrilling. He’s certainly not looking for the next one!

it’s probably nice if you’ve been cheated on to think about karma, or ‘once a cheater’, or ‘creating a vacancy’ because that’s easier than accepting that sometimes marriages just aren’t strong enough and they go tits up. It’s hard to walk away from something that’s ticking along, that’s why falling for someone else is the death knell.

It isn’t always a novelty shag though? Clearly it is sometimes but, a lot of the time, it is not. I believe that people can marry the wrong person and be deeply unhappy and then meet the right person and fall in love. Those kinds of affairs can end up in a lasting relationship. Yes it is still horribly painful, for everyone, but the marriage was not right in the first place.

I don't think it is true.

My dad had an affair. My mother was an awful woman (we are no longer in contact following abuse).

My dad never spoke badly of my mum but, once we'd cut contact of our own volition, he said he'd only stayed as long as he could to protect us. And, given the reason we finally went nc, he as right to do so. He had no other choice.

He had an affair when I was 17 and was with her until his death when I was 37. He was a far happier and nicer man during his marriage to the OW.

My exh had an affair and they are stil together and far happier and better suited than he and I ever were. I know he regrets the way he went about it (put himself into therapy and apologised to me) but to suggest that either of them would have been 'looking for the next thrill' is wrong.

My dad remained faithful to his second wife as my exh has remained faithful to his.

'Honestly, people want to believe that those who engage in affairs and marry the other person are all sordid, sexually incontinent people who can't help but ruin their own happiness'

I don't think they are sordid. I do think they are often shallow types with poor self esteem who seek validation from others for a confidence boost and for some excitement.

So, as I've said yes they may stay with their fling partner but one eye will always be on the look out for thr next thrill. It is sad but true. If you meet someone who is lying to be with you they will easily do the exact same thing again once the novelty has worn off.

Again I won't be, I'll carry on joining in.

Honestly, people want to believe that those who engage in affairs and marry the other person are all sordid, sexually incontinent people who can't help but ruin their own happiness but it isn't necessarily true. It may in some cases so. But not all. I thInk for many, it's a question of not handling things correctly at the time or having much integrity at the time, rather than particularly enjoying the affair.

I do distinguish between those who do this and serial shaggers who stay married.

I know several (my parents seem to know many couples who met this way and my mother would tell me everyone's business as a child). Obviously I don't know for sure but there are a good number of these whom I would be surprised if they'd strayed again.

One woman in particular still feels a huge amount of shame about her own behaviour although it's all settled, and all parties amicable.

One man was putting out feelers online but I don't think acted on it further than that but the 'thrill of the chase' may have applied to him.

Most of the others, I think had quite ordinary marriages that started in a less than ideal way. May last, may not but I don't think they're guaranteed to go any particular way.

I'm not waving flags in defence of cheaters. I just seem to have been party to quite a good sample size for some reason and don't think it's that helpful for the victims of infidelity to hold out for it all crashing down as their vindication and healing. I think better to move on via other means.

Dhs dad left for OW when DH was 14, almost 40 years ago. They're still together and he appears to have been a very good father to his step children and the children they had together while completing forgetting about his first family.

One of my friends was left for ow.
She had her ex crying down the phone , begging to come back....not sure what I'd do ...

I like that message - so true
About 30 odd years ago my ex had a very short exit affair.
I was sad , as I was lonely and he looked like he was living the life ...
Even when I met and married someone who made me a 100 times happier
Eventually I dropped the bitterness, and it was then I realised I was actually choosing to be happy or not.

My best friend had an affair. She and her partner had been together for 15 years then got married. In reality she was pretty unhappy and instead of splitting, they got married. They both knew they weren't right together. No kids.

A year later she had a coup de foudre with someone else who was also married. They started an affair but she never told her by then husband. OM never told his wife but left one day and moved back to family. He had been deeply unhappy and his wife had become violent and there was an incident (long back story). Also no kids.

My BF split from her then husband and moved out into her own place. 6 months later her OM moved in.

25 years on, they are married and completely happy and still friends with ex-H. The ex-W has moved on too. Their original relationships were just wrong and their own relationship is just right. It's very very obvious.

She isn't delighted about the story but life can be messy and they came through it to the other side and a much happier, supportive and loving relationship.

Neither of them would ever cheat, they have no need to find anyone else as they are the complete package.

this actually isn’t true. I cheated on my ex, I had accepted that was the type of person I was tbh. It makes me sick to even imagine cheating on my husband. I think there are 3 categories of people. People who would never ever cheat (my mum being one of them), people who’ll cheat no matter what and (and I think most fall into this one) people who will cheat if they aren’t with the right person

I was technically the other woman. Although nothing ever happened until they had split. Husband refused to marry ex, was a general big grump and very selfish. We’re married with kids and I struggle to imagine him as anything but wonderful (has his faults don’t get me wrong, but nothing major)

Wow
Do you know why?
I read this half a dozen times and still can't work out the time scale... surely this make him late 70's...
I hope he's got his 'memoirs' hidden somewhere...

With regards to the Karma question: you could say that it is good Karma for the person who is cheated on because a cheating lying bastard is removed from their life leaving them in peace.

I admit to knowing absolutely nothing about the real philosophy of Karma.

Nope. Not always. Despite you being desperate to think so.

Yes until they inevitably get bored and someone catches their eye.
They've just learnt from their previous mistakes and are better at not getting caught.