To think the British educational system is all wrong?

Fact is cognitive ability isn't fully developed until the age of 6/7. That's tabstract thinking that enables us to read, write and do maths.
Cognitive development isn’t complete until much later than 6/7 - well into teens depending on which theories you subscribe to. So we’re constantly pushing children into learning they’re not quite ready for.

Theres no “British” education system though. The system in Scotland is better in some ways, eg later starting age, the easy ability to defer younger kids starting and much less formal testing are good. Curriculum for Excellence is a disaster, in my opinion, and makes it very difficult to benchmark how your kids are doing, and it’s just too broad.

I think the secondary school set up actively works against children being able to learn and develop.

Absolutely agree. Luckily, I could read before I went to school, and books have been a massive feature in life.
But apparently, children as young as 6 now demand (and get) pads/tablets, so books will replaced by some digital game or other.

Completely agree, both my DCs are home educated now for different reasons. They are both primary age but the focus at school very much seems to be on passing tests and attendance figures rather than educating children. They had very little break time, they were both in classes with some children with extreme behaviour issues and very little additional support.
I could go on for ages about the issues in schools. Home education isn’t possible for everyone and it’s not ideal for us but it was the best option for our children. There are an increasing number of families choosing to home educate. At some point, I suspect the government will no longer be able to ignore it.

It's the parent's job to teach them to become well-rounded adults, with the school supporting this.
Why have kids then absolve yourself from the responsibility of bringing them up? Schools barely have time to educate kids because they are having to deal with kids who aren't potty/toilet trained, do not listen, do not attend, bad behaviour...

There seems be general misunderstanding about how education works countries (except from those who currently live there, of course). In the end it’s all just different terminology for the same thing but children are essentially in some form of educational setting from the age of five or already has certain skills (e.g. read) by the time they start school.

Re: the much lauded Finnish system:
the curriculum starts getting a lot tougher from 3rd grade (9 years old), that's when my DD realised she needed to study for exams, and its very intense in upper school - my 13 year old had over 50 exams and tests in the autumn term, and a lot of homework every day
I can’t imagine by the children in this country would be able to cope with the level of work and testing that they do from age 9 in Finland. We would be crying out about their mental health and maybe rightly so.

One of my DC would cope fine with that levels of work whereas, another, who is probably brighter, would find it quite overwhelming but eventually would learn to manage their time.

However, the one size fits no one is an issue with the educational system in this country, although I don’t know whether that other countries do it any better.

I find educational threads on MN at one extreme or the other and a discussion can be rather limited: either the education system in this country is failing our children, there is a lack of discipline and parental support for teachers or private schools are a waste of money when 97% of the children do completely fine in the state system.

I agree. Having 2 summer born DC I have naturally done a lot of research into child development.

Fact is cognitive ability isn't fully developed until the age of 6/7. That's tabstract thinking that enables us to read, write and do maths.

What we do in year R &1 is create little robots that are able to recite stuff without understanding what it is.

Secondary school is just as bad. Suddenly all focus is on academics & going to university. DC1 got a lot of pressure to go uni straight after 6th form. She wasn't sure what / if to study and got a job instead. Naturally school wasn't happy because she wouldn't be part of their statistics.

And don't get me started on choosing GCSE subjects at age 14 and A levels at 16... they still have so much growing up to do, many don't really know what future career path they will take. (I also know one DC who couldn't get onto a specific university course because of "wrong' A levels. But spent 2 years working in the industry before applying!)

Thinking about it, it's no surprise that so many DC struggle.

Agree. I live in a different country but I put my daughter in to a school which follows the British education system. I remember worrying about her not knowing her timetables at age 7 and worrying about her handwriting. After realising she went in to autistic burnout at age 14, it’s really made me open my mind and think about why do we put these children (especially the neurodivergent ones) through year after year of sitting in class, following rigid rules which seem to have no real point, memorising for exams at a huge cost to their mental health. They say it’s to learn to follow rules when you are at work, but as an adult you have a choice whether you want to leave that job. The damage schools to do their mental health is far worse. For some kids, home schooling is a much better option if the parents have the means to do so.

In previous generations governments have avoided the accusation of educating the rich while skulking the poor by offering a comprehensive education forcing non academic children to read Shakespeare and solve quadratic equations in a rather redundant exercise when focus should be on job skills.

Options to integrate schooling with work placement should be invested in heavily e.g. the moribund T levels so giving practical skills to the relatively non academic to get them a head start with a useful and potentially lucrative career. The high flying gcse, a level then degree is becoming less and less the idea.

I agree. My eldest at 4 was no way ready for school. I think the European system is much better. Kindergarten then school at 7.

Most countries seem to start around similar ages but they just call it different things. So the US says it starts at 6 but most children do kindergarten and pre-k before then which from I can see doesn’t seem to be different to our reception/ year 1.
scandinavia may start later but most children are in nursery before then with some learning

Hard agree!

I couldn’t agree more. just to give another alternative view, Here in Switzerland compulsory kindergarten begins at 4 BUT there is no formal learning of letters and numbers. They have 2 years of KG and this focuses on learning the school rhythms, social learning, independence (they walk to school alone after lessons from the police on how to behave in the street), the dental hygienist comes every second month to teach them to properly brush their teeth, they learn colours, days of the week, months of the year, the seasons etc. And gradually spend longer at sitting down learning tasks.

at 6 they start first class, here they are introduced to letters and numbers. The class sizes are varied, maximum is 25 and soon as they are over that the class is split into two, my DS has a year group of 28 split into two classes of 14, DSS lives in Zurich and always had 23-25 in his class.

days are short, in the first class Monday and Tuesday are full days (8.20-12 and 13.45-15.15), Wednesday to Friday are mornings only. A third afternoon is added in year 2 and a fourth after that but Wednesday afternoons are always free.

as a working mum it’s a bit of a pain but even in a small village the child care options are good.

the only downside I would say are there is limited differentiation, particularly at the top end, so DS is stuck doing basic adding up when he is capable of multiplication and is therefore bored.

I work in the secondary school system. It really is a one size fits all

The only thing I disagree with is not having time for the park after school. We did it all the time and are in Scotland!

It would ruin the labour market by draining workers. It will never happen.

Danish children start their education at 6 yo - 0th grade. 0th grade is now mandatory in Denmark.
In the current goals for 0th grade pupils must have knowledge of the name, shape and sound of letters and experiment with reading small texts. The expectations are that children will be able to read already in 0th grade.

Most Danish children go to kindergarden before attending school. Kindergarten will start the formal work with letters and numbers the year before children start school. However, kindergarten is not mandatory.

Agree! The curriculum is ridiculous especially in primary. Im a Senco and have said for years, that schools and the curriculum are not fit for purpose. Teachers are as frustrated as parents. Both my children's GCSE teachers told me they were creative and thought outside the box and that they wouldn't get the grades they were capable of if they didn't learn how to answer exam questions the expected way, it's sad that children's natural curiosity and creativity isn't nurtured.

So what about single parents? What about people who can only do their jobs in locations where housing is sky high? No poor people or single parents in London for example.
I think it would be unpopular given the cost of living, house prices and many people not having the luxury of choice about having one parent stay at home. And not all jobs can be flexible enough to let you do your own wraparound care. None of that would work. Your ideas would absolutely ruin my family.

YANBU and I’m an ex primary teacher.

We rob children of the opportunity to learn at their own pace and to read and write on their own natural timeline. So unfair. Whilst some may be ready at that age I can assure you that many (most) are not. We also rob children of the work of childhood which is deep play.

We are one of the only countries in the world to start formal education at age 4. Take Denmark for example, they start formal school at age 7 despite having a sort of kindergarten prior to that. They don’t start any formal reading or writing until age 7.

Our governments will justify it though as they think it’s the only way to ‘compete’ in the international league tables 🙄

I actually think the EYFS in England is pretty good and that Reception year is lovely for many children. It's Y1 where it all starts to go wrong. Spreading Reception across two years and starting Y1 work at Y2 age would make such a difference. Why am I teaching the present perfect tense to Y3s age 7? I honestly don't know how anyone wrote and published a curriculum with that in if they'd ever met small children.

Seems logical to me that school as the precursor to work would teach us how to be worker bees.

What do ypu think education should do? And what do you think parents / carers should do?

When my son was in nursery he was put in an occupational therapy group where they spent a lot of time climbing, especially climbing in ways that made them cross over the midline (so right hand moving to the left side and vice versa), they told me this kind of exercise would help prepare him for school, because its this kind of action that helps prepare the brain and body for reading and writing.
And his preschool does a lot of fine motor work, they spent a lot of time creating things with hama beads, or with rowen berries and little sticks or metal wire. Things that really help, while also being fun for the children.

I remember my son's teacher taking me aside and saying in a very concerned voice that she was worried about his writing. He was in year 1! What a joke. No ideas about how to help him at school or at home. He never really got any help with this.

I worked out in end it was a physical dexterity issue and sorted it out with my sister helping. He would have benefitted in lots of physical exercises but what they actually did was make him practise the same thing over and over again that wasn''t working. Targeted physical play for fine motor skills would have been much better for him.YANBU!

Other countries don't do reading and writing until six or even seven.

Agree that the education system is essentially about producing worker bees. Piling around £70k of debt on at age 21 thanks to uni fees and acommodation costs also helps with compliance in the system- just incase the lack of a mortgage makes the kids go rogue.

I'm in Finland, preschool is mandatory now so formal education starts the year they turn 6 (so some will be 5 but most will be 6) but its a very gentle start to education, they just do a little formal learning each day and the rest is play. A very gentle slow start, they literally learn the alphabet and the numbers up to 20, they're not expected to be able to read at all before they start but these days more children do start being able to read so thankfully my DS's school has a flexible start where they mix preschoolers and 1st and 2nd graders in ability groups for a few hours a week so my son can do things more on his level. New thing though, didn't have it when my DD was in preschool but only a couple of children in her class could read then so it was alright, they all learnt at the same pace. Short days, just 4 hours to begin with, increasing up to 6 by the end of primary school (but variable, some days might be only 3 hours, others 6)

But the curriculum starts getting a lot tougher from 3rd grade (9 years old), that's when my DD realised she needed to study for exams, and its very intense in upper school - my 13 year old had over 50 exams and tests in the autumn term, and a lot of homework every day. But at least they do a lot of practical subjects so its not all academic slog.

Finnish kindergartens are systematically implemented learning as part of play in the children's everyday lives.
Educators work purposefully with the children on language and writing. The children don't wait to school (7yo) with formal education.

The difference betwwen UK and Finland is discipline.
Finnish schools have a very high level of discipline and a low level of parental involvement.
Teachers are also better trained than in the UK.