To think the British educational system is all wrong?

Thank you! I don't recognise mist of what is described on this thread - I suppose Wales gets it right. Up until year 2 /3 my son has done most of his learning through play.

I will say that year 3 comes as a bit of a shock as a result, but the children seem very happy so....

I grew up in Eastern Europe where we start school at 6 but the standards and expectations are much higher. Everything is graded, there is a lot of homework and if you don't pass, you repeat the year. Switching to a British secondary school was quite surprising because it felt pretty easy in comparison...

I really think we did a lot of damage by trying to expand university attendance in the way we did. We should have introduced a master tradesman route like Germany instead. Nursing didn’t used tor require a degree did it?

I completely agree that 4 is a ridiculous age to start formal education. A fellow reception parent confided in me she was worried about her child's writing and was making him write pages of lines every night on advice of the teacher...at FOUR. What's the point?? It reminds me of the past trend to potty train much too early, making it a difficult and drawn-out process, when we now wait until they're ready and it's much easier for everyone.

So with an average UK salary of 35k that means family homes with a max mortgage of 100k

So only those with rich families who can stump up a 250k deposit can buy?

Play in the early years develops necessary brain architecture. Many reception classes formally teach children which cuts into this precious time. Formal learning is damaging at this age. Play IS the learning at this age but feels counter intuitive to many parents (and sadly to some teachers) because of the term itself (‘play’ seen as the opposite to ‘learning’) and because the effects of this super important ground work cannot always easily be seen or measured (highly problematic to the system).
Glad to see others talk about the impact on creative thinking too. No good having scientists with bits of paper to say they know physics or chem really well if they lack ability to think creatively. That’s the skill you can’t teach and you won’t be a good scientist if you can’t apply in novel situations. Play needs to be much, much more highly valued and I agree that the approach to education in this country is deeply flawed and needs a rehaul.

Sweden doesn't have compulsory school from 3 yo. Sweden doesn't offer free kindergarden. The fee is based on the average income your household has per month."Förskoleklass" is mandatory and free in Sweden. It is 0th grade/6 yo and the start of school.

My DC loved school because they were with their friends all day. However, they are NT and were very very ready for pre school and then each academic step up thereafter.

I agree with a PP re: school day - it’s not that long at all and most Reception children by the summer term would cope well with a longer day. I know independent schools have longer days and compensate with longer school holidays.

When I was doing my teacher training back in the late 1980s we had a retired former HMI as our tutor, this was because of a staffing issue. He was an emeritus professor so he could remember schools before world war 2. We loved getting him to tell us stories of the old days.
He told us all sorts of things that have stayed with me. One was that schools are a reflection of the society they are in. They don't create values and standards they are formed by those that exist already.
And English schools, I have no experience of Scottish ones, have mostly been formed by the theories and opinions of the Tories who have held power in the UK for so much of my adult life. And obviously schools aren't great for everyone just like life isn't. But you would be surprised I think by how happy secondary schools are mostly.

20 years ago it was common for students to work as well! It was the height of the idea that everyone should be aiming for university. There were no grants and student loans were not enough to live off.

Housing was relatively cheaper I believe - one of the issues I see currently with university is that the cost of housing has skyrocketed in part because all new housing being build is 'fancy' (for example the new builds are generally ensuite rather than shared bathrooms - ensuites were fairly rare 20 years ago). There are limited options for students who are happy to sacrifice comfort to have something cheaper and from what I can see demand outweighs supply.

I’m not sure access to tach is really a problem unless there’s no access to books.

However, this wouldn't be a problem if the school day wasn't so ridiculously long. There just isn't enough time to play after school. There is no time to go anywhere after school (eg the park), for playdates, for any play that takes longer than an hour, to do extra curricular activities (without missing out on Unstructured play time) or anything else.

Just how long do you think the school day is? When DD was at primary school she finished at 3.30 which left plenty of time to play with friends, go to the park etc.

At secondary school she started earlier (8.20) and finished at 2.50 leaving plenty of time to do homework and see friends.

I disagree. If your child has been to Nursery they don't have too much trouble with the transition. Reception is mostly teaching through play. Plenty of time after school to go to the park, get home, have unstructured play time until bed time. Why shouldn't you do any extra activities at the weekend? I think it's better to do them then. My children and grandchildren loved reading so I think it's a good thing to learn it early. I don't think children miss out on being children at all by being in school, the majority of them enjoy school and love learning.

I think the amount of discretion teachers have in the Finnish system is an interesting one. It works well if the teacher is a strong teacher but it can lead to very bad educational experiences for kids if the teacher is weak. I don't have experience of the Finnish system (and I understand teachers there are highly educated/trained and well paid) but it's something that was a concern to me in the IB PYP and one of the reasons I moved my kids out of that system. IB PYP is fantastic if you have a strong teacher (and preferable to English to me) who thrives not being overly restricted in what they have to teach, but the risk is that with a poor teacher (or poor school) it is far far worse than the English curriculum. I had one year where DS thrived because his teacher was fantastic and one year where he stagnated because the teacher was very rigid (and frankly was struggling with health problems herself and overwhelmed).

One thing out educational system suffered from is that the middle classes will effectively work out what a child needs to do to come out with grades to ensure their children have the best possible career choices. Education becomes less about a love of Sbakepeare, an appreciation of the elegance of mathetmtarics, an awe of the universal applicability of science but a rock box exercise for those parents determined that those children have the best opportunities (which is the most natural human instinct).

It is not compulsory to start at 4, can chose to start term after turn 5. They can not attend or attend part time up until then.

If people dont agree with the British school system, they are free to home school or use an alternative school model, like Steiner, which is more flexible.

Our LEA is similar re SEN school provisions. If you can't cope in mainstream, but are academically able, there's no suitable peer group / academic offering in any of the special schools.

I do think the system is difficult for the children whose strengths lie outside the testable reading writing and mathematics areas. Often boys.
So many children who have physical and interpersonal skills and passions that aren’t valued at school. The non academic ones at private schools will often have these attributes developed and go on to do well in the arts, acting etc.
When I see yet another Eton or Roedean actor or musician or artist or sportsperson I think about the amazing children who never got to try whatever the role is.

Exactly, would need to have a huge deposit which generally means inheritance/family money. This would reduce social mobility.

That would just restrict who is able to buy a home. Only people with family money would buy all of the houses and working people would have to rent.
Not everyone gets a mortgage.

I also think that the complexities of English spelling mean children need to start learning to read and write sooner than if the language of instruction is e.g. Spanish or Finnish, where the sound and spelling rules are much more consistent and regular.

Completely agree with this, both my girls reception years were fantastic, mainly free u structured play with a few short bursts of more focused learning on small groups . And within that they grew and learnt so much, without being pushed, it was learning through play. I can really see the value in it, after seeing the difference between my oldest (year 4) and youngest (year 1) understanding around phonics. Oldest missed around half of her reception year due to covid, and at 9 her comprehension of word structure is much more limited than my 5 year old, she struggles in her spelling due to this.

But the rush to formal learning in year 1 felt to quick, should have been more gradual. Fortunately my daughters school is very much about the 'whole child' and they focus on emotional development as much as academic.

Fair enough - I would be interested to hear whether there is a degree or more intense learning in other countries and how they cater to different needs of children.
Your DD seems to thrive in this environment, which is great, and it sounds like the drive to do well comes from her rather than the teacher, given that some children do not study for the tests.

Kids should not stay at home til six or seven, as for some kids, home is not a great learning environment. It's a nice idea that they would all be doing bit of maths while baking with grandma, or making dens in the forest, but in reality many would be plonked in front of the TV and socially isolated as not allowed to play out unsupervised.

That's why some countries (I think Sweden and France are two) have compulsory nursery school from 3 years old. It's to free the children from the circumstances of their home.