To think the British educational system is all wrong?

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What is the purpose of a 4 year old child learning to read and write and do addition and subtraction? How does this help the child either in the present or in the future when they are an adult? I can see that 4 year olds are clearly capable of learning these things and of course being able to read or do simple arithmetic is not a problem. The problem is what are they missing out on in order to learn these skills? In my opinion they are missing out on playing. Unstructured, self determined playing

4 and 5 year olds spend lots of the school day playing! It’s not called ‘playing’ on the curriculum, but that’s exactly what it is: independent play, usually both indoors and outside. The children are given free choice of all the equipment, including bikes, scooters, pretend play items, colouring, jigsaws, games, sand, water play, balls, etc, and can play by themselves or in groups. It’s all free choice.

Another thing, UK schools are too focused on "preparing for work". I never understood this. My daughter is not likely to he stuck behind a desk in her future career, she's goung to be in media centres, photography studios and out on the street. She wears jeans and and oversized shirt. Yet, school says, you need to be in business attire to meet employers. The guy from the newspaper who interviewed my daughter was wearing a check shirt & chinos! When are schools going to get with the fact that people in business do not wear business attire anymore, unless it's to meet Royalty or their Bank Manager?? Her friend wants to be a sports therapist. There she is, in her tracksuit, trainers, hair in a messy bun.... business attire?

Finland is always the example used, I think because they gave their education system such a radical shake-up. There were many facets to that shake up that aren't always taken into account though.
Finnish children have very few tests until 16-18 and the society in pretty homogeneous (meaning nearly everyone has Finnish as their first language).

I agree with a lot of what the OP says (which is why I'm sending my summer born child to reception at 5 instead of 4) but disagree that there's no time for play dates after school - it finishes at 3.30 which leaves loads of time (if they're not in wrap around care of course). Plenty of time for the park too, at least in summer.

I have read books since the age if 4 which I found great! but maths could have waited until I was 7 or 8.

Observing my daughter's school career it occurs to me that a lot of the way they teach maths and English in school is more confusing and unnecessarily superfluous than when I was at school. I also think there's too much teaching-to-test. Daughter was always storing enough information for that day's test or exam. What a waste of time. Why not take a subject and really get into the bones of it? Make it fun for the kids to learn about? Er no, we have an exam next week. 😫 I didn't think she was learning anything, truly. And now she's doing her A levels she's forgotten everything she learnt at GCSE.

There's no learning for pleasure. Discovery. Research. It's all, there's an exam next week.

We live in Europe....not Finland. My son started school at aged 7 (now 8 ) and goes from 8-13.30. Here after school kids do all kinds of activities. I will say though from 8-13.30 he is sat at a desk and although there are breaks he doesn't get to play outside.
The eldest is now 13 and is doing full day so 8- 14.30...sometimes till 15.30 depending on the day.

Spot on!

I agree.

I also think the later that school starts the more tit damages children from backgrounds where there isn’t much input from parents. DD would have been fine, she could read fluently before reception, she taught herself to add and already had an active life.

A child where the parents barely communicate with them, who can’t “play” with other children (sharing, negotiating etc) or follow instructions is going to benefit from being in a school environment.

The reason dc do start reading and doing basic maths at 4 or 5 is because it’s a life skill and some actually need to get on with it! Denying my DD1 the chance to read at 4 would not have met her needs. She liked books and was quick to pick it up. Others take longer and play for longer. As far as I can see, YR tries to do this.

Interesting that despite a different system, Wales has the worst educational outcomes in the uk.

The worst things about UK education are the existence of private schools and the fact that you specialise far too early, meaning many British people are woefully deficient in general knowledge. I’ve lost track of the number of times I’ve seen someone get defensive about not ever having heard of a recent historical event and exclaiming’Well, we only did the Tudors and WWII!’

@CookiePlough What time do your kids finish school that there's no time to do anything afterwards? Mine are out 3pm and they finish at 12 on a Friday. We're at the park 2-3 times a week (weather permitting) and often have playdates. Kids also do cubs and beavers on a weekday. What stopped this was when I worked longer days and they went to after school club. The school day easily allows time to do things after school.

I absolutely agree that kids start school too young. This is more a problem in England than in Scotland (where I am) though. (Not sure how the system works in the rest of the UK.) Our intake is different so the youngest kids are 4.5 rather than just turned 4 and it's really easy - encouraged even - to defer the younger ones so they start at 5.5. P1 is extremely play based so not a huge jump from nursery really.

It's a sausage making machine trying to turn us all into sausages. The trouble is that some people can't become a sausage and suffer. School can't deal with people who are different and batter them into submission. There should alternatives for people who have ASD etc so they can learn at their own pace and on a different way. But that would take money, effort and the desire to change.
My son suffered at school for those reasons. Not being able to afford fees, we were stuck. And his school was rated as outstanding!

I think this is some of the issue. You have kids that need different things to learn. So many schools are run like businesses now, it’s all about getting as much as you can for as little as possible.
If you have 31 kids in a class, trying to teach them all exactly the same thing in the same way, no additional help and a rigid curriculum then it doesn’t equal a good education.

Absolutely, there should be more choice, but unfortunately usually have to pay for private to get that, which is now even harder.
Every child is different, smaller class sizes would help massively as could be more individualised.
My girls are lucky that their classes are about 20, with teacher and 2 TA's, so lots of small group really focused learning in groups of 5, with the 4th group doing some free play in the break out area, and then they rotate. Short bursts of really focused tailored activity as groups are broadly ability based from year 1 upwards, and as it's so efficient, they still get loads of time for forest school, art, music, cooking etc. Every child learns to ride a bike in year 1, to swim in year 2.

That in my mind is the answer, make learning more effective and efficient to allow time for more play and functional skill development.

This!! Early years stuff is great its the later years where the kids are sat for long periods of time.

Didnt they change the curriculum about 10 years ago where the expecations at each year level was much higher?

The UK is quite low down on the international School tests (PISA) ranking, so clearly not doing that well. It seems that maths attainment has moved up the table so one positive at least.

And don't cite Finland as an example, our Finnish friends think their system is so slow and the kids are behind, in addition they stay in school later

Exactly, there are children who are spectacularly able who with the right environment can really excel and find something they love to do. My DH (again 2nd gen working class immigrant) bloody LOVED maths, he was lucky he had some great teachers that continued to stretch and encourage him. He is very clever but his outcomes may have been different if someone was more worried about him having fun, doing maths IS fun for him. He actively enjoyed his science lessons (we watch documentaries on maths and space when it’s his turn to choose). He enjoyed learning new things. He also played cricket, football and rugby and was on school teams etc. It doesn’t have to be one or the other.

The dumbing down and stripping out of things considered too “high brow” hurts those of us from less advantaged backgrounds more than it does the established middle classes.

My dd was able to read, write and do multiplication and division starting school at 5. She hated the chaotic nature of the learning through lay environment and only really settled once the classroom was in rows (year 3). You do realise we are all different! I remember hating preschool because kids ran around and didn't sit still for the alphabet lessons.

The solution is a choice but I'd choose more academic not less

Most of the EYFS from pre-school to year R is play-based, as we know most children learn through play. Personally pre-school has been great for my autistic toddler over and above nursery as he is more drawn to letter play, numbers and that is his version of play. He also likes riding bikes and playing with vehicular toys, so actually pre-school is the more ideal environment for him. What will work for some children won’t for others. It all goes tits up from around year 3 when it gets to tick-boxy and children are put under pressure to meet academic milestones, and there isn’t enough focus on holistic learning styles. Secondary school in this country is generally a shit show and still functions under the Victorian system of churning out worker bees. Some children thrive, but the problem is that those who need a different approach are left to fall through the cracks. There’s also obviously not enough good quality SEN provision or intervention services.

That's ridiculous of the teacher to push that in reception. They should leave reception as confident readers, writing can come later.
Ours focus on letter formation, and are encouraged to write only a few lines in year 1 - quality over quantity both for reading and writing.

There is a thread on here on the number of children starting school not potty trained because parents are starting too late!

I think over all children are institutionalised with little room anywhere in their lives to simply Potter around and think and do what they want.
To be able to think and let their minds wander is crucial but with very early nursery and busy busy lives and now tech there is little room for that.

I can't believe there are all these level headed sensible comments understanding why our education system is antiqued and outdated yet there's a vile thread about making home education illegal which is full of silly comments on the same forum. Madness.

No these were elite universities, the view seems to be it’s the increasing use of tech and drop in attention span and poor reading skills overall.