To think the British educational system is all wrong?

@OnlyTheBravest I don’t think the best schools do remove them - at all. Often they are afternoon activities and they are in the NC - except drama. A good school will build in a Christmas play or concert or similar though.

I liked the early years framework and had no issue with Reception, as my DC school was play based.

However from year 1 expecting children to sit and write like mini adults is not right for all children. It does not mean they are behind. It meant that they were not ready for formal education. Both DC ended up high achieving so I had no worries about them.

The latter end of Secondary on the hand, needs urgent reform. School should be about finding out your talents and skills and ensuring that every child leaves secondary with functional Maths/English/Citizenship/Health and an understanding of the world they are heading into including how to write CVs, group/individual interviews and what lifelong learning is and how it is beneficial to enter careers and improve wellbeing.

It makes me sad to see the removal of music, art, drama, craft, so early in a child's school life. Those are the little things that make you happy and have the potential to become hobbies in adulthood.

Placemarking.

The outlook in the UK is cold and is not child or family focussed.

A state primary with a minibus? I thought those were long gone!

Yes it's a state primary school.
And yes we compete against both private and state schools in various local sports competitions, barely a week goes by without a team going off on the school minibus to play another school or in a local sports festival.
We have players from a first division football team come in as part of a local sports partnership, and girls football is promoted as much as boys.

At juniors age the girls do better not because they are necessarily faster or stronger, but because they communicate and work better as a team, they tend to defend better and are more strategic in looking for oppurtuinities to score.

And it doesn't have to be either music or sport, can do both. Our choir attends regional events, our drama group performs at the town theatre with other schools. And the schools sats results are strong too.

Rugby is Mixed until U12. Its only Secondary school when contact isn't permitted in a mixed game.

They won’t when it’s contact but that should not be permitted anyway. Are any athletics world records faster or higher or longer for women? Surely who beats who depends on quality of opposition? I’m assuming this is a prep school. Most state schools have little competitive sport at primary level. Needs a teacher to feel passionate about it. Prep schools rarely play state schools at sport.

I prefer primary schools to offer a variety in terms of music, drama, sport and art. A good one will but often everything except sport is pushed to one side. Obviously schools now care so much about results for Sats it stops a broader education that many had 40 years ago. However we do have higher standards in the core subjects for more DC.

Also in contact rugby (although not in school). My daughters u10 girls rugby team beat the boys team in a friendly last week.

Yes, at tag rugby they do beat them. Also at hockey, football, rounders, climbing, swimming and Athletics. All state primary. I don't think sports defines their school despite it being encouraged, there are also arts clubs, drama, music, choir, yoga, debating, school council, eco warriors etc, all are equally valued

I agree they shouldn't be put up against boys in contact sports from around year 4 onwards

@hazelnutvanillalatte

I don't think you need to wait until 36 months. Again, ERIC says too late.

I think that the people who cause an aversion are people who start early and think they can get it done by forcing it in a weekend and they will be done. It's like all things in parenting - reading your kids' cues and adapting to their style.

Most NT kids can get it at 2, it's just that they require more input to do it. By which I don't mean parents forcing them and being very result orientated and putting their expectations on their kids based on what a book tells them they will "achieve". It's simply observing them, knowing them well enough to see that they are showing signs of knowing that they are about to poo (very unusual for a child not to do this by 2 - many kids take themselves somewhere quieter immediately beforehand by 18 months) and having a close enough relationship with them to be able to support them to make progress in their understanding even if it is slow. And stopping if it is stressful or distressing - in most cases, it really doesn't need to be.

I don't think there was much aversion in older generations 30 years ago, who mostly trained between 18 months and 30 months rather than 12-15. Probably because life was slower, more mothers were at home and there was more time to be patient.

I agree. The amount of pressure and stress placed on our children from such a young age is awful. My youngest was considered behind because they didn't want to mark make or respond to instructions at the age of 4. Fast forward a few years and they are one of the top students on their year and their handwriting is beautiful. Yet we got so much pressure from the school in regards to it. My eldest children kept being told how gsces were vital to get anywhere in life and that they had to do well to have a chance to do anything. Yes they are important but they are not the be all and end all in life.

The fun has been taken out of education both for the pupils and the teachers.

I'm talking about potty training at 12-15 months, which was common in my parents' generation, vs letting it come naturally now which is usually around 36 months in my experience and those in my circle - none of whom have had any problems. The only ones who have are those who started too early and caused a fear/aversion in babies who weren't ready.

@hazelnutvanillalatte

Hmmm, I don't agree on delaying potty training and nor does ERIC, which recommends potty training before 30 months for future bladder and bowel health. Waiting until later for my kids, who were definitely aware when they were about to poo, would have just reinforcing to them that they should poo in a nappy.

Lots of parents of NT kids who are capable of training don't want to take annual leave for potty training and don't want to have the jeopardy of a very occasional accident in a distracted or overtired 2 year old and would prefer to keep spending their money on nappies that go to landfill - that's not ideal, but it is their choice. I do object to the idea that it's necessarily what's in kids' best interests though!

I took 2 weeks of annual leave in the summer to train my 2 year old son, second of which was on holiday and so many people told me they wouldn't want to waste their holiday on this - it really wasn't that hard, you have to watch 2 year olds all the time and I got to do it in the sunshine; he was very reliable on outings within 10 days.

Most primary schools don’t do team sports but preps do. At senior school I remember the horrors of team sports and not being picked but those days have gone. My girls weren’t in teams, other than house teams (sports day etc) but they did participate in sports lessons but not on a competitive basis. So more for exercise. That was ok for them. I hid in the library. Total avoidance if I could manage it. Sport defined the school though.

Cannot imagine girls beating boys at rugby. Some sports should not be mixed.

So you had a poor PE teacher, which is awful, and now I think they are better at deciding teams in an arbitrary way, such as counting '1,2' across the class. But that doesn't mean thst no one should do team sports due to few poor teachers.

Sometimes my daughters PE does girls vs boys, to bring the boys down to earth if they are getting boastful - 9 times out of 10 the girls win and that teaches them a thing about girls being as fast/as strong as boys. They actually usually win as they are better at communicating and working as a team!

My DD1 went to school with a world junior sprint champion. Obviously ultra one sided!

Ballroom dancing didn’t help me either. As I was tall I was a “boy” because we didn’t have enough boys. So not much use ever! We must have had a very wet winter if they resorted to dancing!

You're not understanding my point. It's not that people expect to win, it's that they get criticised, bullied, etc., by their team mates and teachers if they cause their team to lose. Typical example is the line of shame where the "favoured" few take turns to be the team captain and they choose the class mates they want on their team, leaving the ones neither wants to be chosen last - that's just cruel and should have been stamped on decades ago.

I didn't mind coming last in running etc - I didn't expect anything else. But being ridiculed and bullied in the team sports had a detrimental impact.

Of course if you are good at something you are keen to win, and we shouldn't discourage that.

I excelled at sprinting and won every shorter distance race at every sports day. And then a parent complained that their little darling was 'sad that the mean girl wasn't letting her child win'. I wasn't mean, I was just fast. But I then got made to sit on the sidelines which was rubbish. I wasn't a bully, but that parent definitely was, targeting an 8 year old.

My daughter also excels at sprinting, and her classmate had a moan at the teacher that she wasn't letting them ever win, that they needed a headstart. Their teacher came back with, 'ok, we can do that but im going to take points off your next spelling test because you are better at spelling than her', and they were all 'no sir, that wouldn't be fair sir'.

Children need to learn that unfortunately life isn't fair, if you want something you need to work/fight for it". Sometimes you win sometimes you lose, both are OK.

Put it this way: the UK system is far, far, better than the US system. And no metal detectors on vast majority of entrances of British schools either ...

Interesting - we were judged at almost everything, and I don’t think that does early years pupils any good at all! Catholic school. My upstanding DF finally started doing the cover drawings for my book reports one year because we were all so fed up with a nun who was taking major deductions for my childish efforts, after it became clear at a Parents’ Evening that none of the accomplished cover pages on display could have been produced by a child.

I also had external dance lessons and we would sometimes do a bit of folk dancing in school, IIRC mostly in Geography lessons. I wish I had learnt ballroom dancing in school, or ever. But the lack hasn’t had a huge impact on my life.

Tell that to the ultra sporty bullying kids who are only interested in winning!

And to the games teachers who regard games lessons as training practice for the school's A team!

But part of the purpose of team sports isn't to make an premiership footballer, but to develop team building skills, communication skills , all valuable life skills.
Learning to fail/lose gracefully but keep trying is a life skill also. Many things in life are competitive, whether that's exams or competing for a job and not learning how to deal with this isn't helpful.

And this is from someone who was rubbish at any sport which needed coordination, and almost always picked last in teams.
I excelled in academics and it was a lesson in humility to realise i definitely wasn't good at everything.

How would this work? All pupils would need to be using PE hall/music room at same time if all in the afternoon.
Also, interspersing academic topics with more physical/practical ones helps with learning fatigue as it activates different parts of the brain. I think they are all important, up until at least year 9.

I feel a bit sad that we didn't do ballroom dancing when I was in school, just some line dancing, so i don't know how to dance. Ballroom dancing is a big thing in Finland, they learn some group dances in primary school (new one each year, which they perform at the independence day celebrations) and partner ones in upper school. DD gets 3 weeks of dance lessons early this term, to prepare for the valentines dance. In high school the second years put on a big ballroom dancing show, with their own choreography too, for parents and local news streams it too. It's absolutely brilliant to watch.

@poetryandwine No they don’t but there are clubs.

I didn’t feel my dc were judged at sport at primary school. DD1 wasn’t sporty but who cared? No one really. DD2 was better and enjoyed it. At primary no one judged their music or art ability. Other dc who didn’t play an instrument might have been better at sport. I don’t think we should limit dc just because some are not going to be great at these things. DD2 did dance and the school had no idea. My DDs swam but school didn’t know that either. Primary school is just about tasting what’s available and parents try and supplement that with out of school clubs.

I hated team games at school but you have to take the rough with the smooth. We also did some ballroom dancing. State grammar!