To think that men just actually don’t want to do that much after their OH gives birth?

I come from a country where having housekeepers and babysitters is the norm (it's cheap and provides employment). Women there still complain their husbands/partners do not help enough at home/children etc. I often say to them "try living in UK or most developed countries where we cannot afford external help. You have no idea how heavy the workload is for women in those countries ". Of course it is a generalization but at the end of the day, if you need more help, ask for it, don't be a martyr, not worth it and many times not appreciated . If he does not change his ways, then either make peace with it or find a better man otherwise you'll forever live in frustration and tiredness whilst he gets younger. Your feelings are valid, trust me :)

This.
I never felt more cared for, loved, and looked after as when I was home after having each of my 3.
Well, maybe equalled when I had cancer.

But YAB massively U to lump all men together.

Not in my experience. My DH took 3 months SPL for each of our two children, my brother in law took 2 months off recently when his baby was born. We know a couple of friends who went down to a 4 day week to look after their children and another friend who does all weekend and most evenings solo parenting as that's when his wife works. Most dad friends we know are very hands on.

I think that SPL is great but the reality is it's difficult if the dad has a higher income (unless they get enhanced pay during leave like we did). I have also actually heard many mum friends say they wouldn't want to give up any of their mat leave so dad could have SPL. I know the uptake of SPL is very low but I wonder how many don't take it because they just don't want to to it, or there are other factors involved.

I have two different experiences of husbands and paternity leave. Exh was useless (he had two weeks off after the birth) , he went out 'head wetting' , left the night feeds to me and generally made me feel very lonely. I suffered with pnd. No surprise there.

Dh , however, is a very different person , he was only allowed a few days off when our baby born for various reasons. He looked after the house so that I could recover , did 50/50 night feeds and always remembered to wash the bottles and start the steriliser when he got in from his night shift. He genuinely wanted proper paternity leave so that he could be around more.

It depends on the man , but if I'm honest, I've heard more negative stories than positive from my female friends. And that's a massive shame.

I think also , that the process needs to be made simpler. I remember reading about sharing mat leave , pat leave etc and it was very confusing.

There's a lot that needs to change.

Great another generalising men thread.

My DP gently pushed for shared parental leave and it was me who said no I wanted to do the whole year. It look me a while to recover so I felt I wanted the whole year to fully enjoy it. It also felt like my right as I was the one who carried and birthed our child.

My DP was amazing post birth and during mat leave. I have never felt more cared for and supported.

Maybe they can’t afford to? My DP had a colleague at work who did this, he wanted to take more time off but they couldn’t afford to take the hit with nursery fees coming up etc.

Mine is a teacher. He took shared PL, and then it was the summer holidays and everything was very even. He is better overnight/early mornings than me tbh.
We both have our careers, he obviously deals with school holiday childcare, and is so hands on.

Exactly. This is a massive issue.

In our case we actually both took 6 months off (together) but we both had the opportunity to extend our time off (unpaid) because we had good employers. That’s not an option for many people and also lots of people couldn’t afford it.

My work have announced a new paternity policy which makes it equal to maternity leave, it’s amazing they are doing this!

it has led to a mini baby boom, but not one single man is taking the full entitlement, they are all coming back to work after the full pay finishes. I understand it doesn’t make sense financially but I would expected at least one or two to do a few months half pay to spend more time with their family. It annoys me as I know DO would if he had the option at his work.

Up until this it was the standard 2 weeks. One guy had arranged 2 weeks AL to follow this, but came back and cancelled this as the baby was ‘doing his head in’

My DH did 12 weeks with our first. Currently pregnant with 2nd and he will do the same.

SPL uptake is actually more of a reflection of how poor mat pay/SPP is and the gender pay gap - in many families the man is the breadwinner and therefore the financial impact is larger. I’m the breadwinner but my DHs work offers 12 weeks full pay for partners, which makes it an even easier choice to take it!

The biggest issue with SPL is it isn't actually any extra time for a baby to be at home & not in a nursery. To give time to Dad they took it off Mum.

Most women don't want to do this.

My DH was and is brilliant and took shared parental leave.

This is actually an interesting and complex issue - YABU to reduce it to ‘all men are lazy’.

1. shared parental leave (as the name implies) means the 1 year entitlement is shared. If you want your DP to take 3 months off, you only get 9 off. Lots of women aren’t keen on this idea. I’ve seen this IRL and on MN. It also means that the kid might need to go into childcare early which many people are not keen on.
2. There is no requirement to pay Father’s any more than statutory and given men are typically earning more, I’ve heard quite a few families talk about how they can’t afford for the Father to take time off because the companies policy is shit.
3. it’s poorly publicised.
4. there is a lot of ingrained societal / work place pressure around this topic; me and my DP were in a restaurant for lunch with our small baby when we were on parental leave and we got chatting to the retired couple next to us. My DP was a Director at one of the big 4 consultancies in London so had a good, well paid job. The retired gentleman exclaimed when my DP said he was on parental leave; “aren’t you concerned they won’t think you’re very ambitious?!” Note he didn’t wonder the same about me taking time off to have a baby. Lots of men don’t feel comfortable taking leave because they think they shouldn’t. They think ‘ambitious men’ don’t take parental leave.

Of course some men are lazy but your OP makes me think you’ve not thought about this very deeply.

What help would they be? I’ve had all easy newborns and EBF but DH did absolutely everything except breastfeed, which I found quite helpful as I imagine most people would. I don’t know why many women act like how badly you can treat yourself after birth is a competition and the person who does the most with a massive placental wound, surgery site, etc, wins.

My partner worked through naps during his paternity leave. He was only entitled to 2 weeks and honestly during those two weeks I was winning at life and didn't need any help.
At 3 weeks silent reflux hit my daughter and pnd hit me. By 2 months my partner was working full time, doing all the housework and cooking and was essentially my carer too as well as a very active father - as much as she would let him as she was 10 months before she fully accepted him as a care giver.

I was 14 months post partum before I could start contributing towards the house work again.
I have never felt as loved as I did then. For me the paternity came at the wrong time to be helpful. A new job meant that he didn't qualify for enhanced paternity packages. The only saving grace was the pandemic which meant he was only in the office in the morning and work from home in the afternoon when he held and fed me in between meetings and work. If this hadn't been the case I would have ended up in hospital earlier or he would have had to take unpaid carers leave.

Well thats it, often we make bad choices. Some more than others. But if you don't bring kids into it it makes it much easier to leave when you come to your senses. And it means no one else suffers as a result of our lapses in judgement.

Even if a relationship is great and they are great, kids change things. If it's great as is, why risk it?

I think we need to de-center the idea of kids being 'the norm'. And refocus on personal happiness and that of our partners instead.

Yabu. DH had about 4 weeks off when DD was first born (2 weeks paternity then Christmas holiday). I took the first six months of maternity and then DH had the last 3 as shared parental leave. It was great and gave him a good opportunity to bond with DD. Due to COVID we were both around for the entire period anyway, so he was able to play with DD on work breaks and I was able to continue to BF on mine. I think if the mother is well then shared parental leave should be encouraged as much as possible. It's fantastic for the family unit.

Yess that too! The body in post-natal recovery also. I didn’t have a c-section but even so I felt it took so long until my body felt like mine again (even now I’m not quite there!!). I was also an anxious new mum and I didn’t sleep much at all in the first 48 hours or so, so having a supportive person nearby allowing me to sleep was essential!

DP took a month paternity leave and really stepped up. He did all the cooking and cleaning and I really appreciated him being there. Unfortunately he steadily stepped off the gas when he was back at work. I insisted he take three months SPL at the end of the first year and it did help rebalance things. We’re more equal parents because of it but unfortunately I’m still the default cook.

Isn't postnatal depression more like 1 in 3?

As for men doing their share...this is one of the few instances where I do think women need to hold some accountability. If he doesn't do his share before kids, he certainly won't after. So do -not - have children with him. Even if that means NEVER having kids.

Let's be honest, more than half of the people with kids, probably should never have had them for one reason or another. One of those being, their partner is useless and so they are left run ragged and exhausted, not to mention - tied to the waste of space via the child for the rest of their life. They could have done something else with their life. Kids aren't a necessity or a right.

I'm not advocating for a full withdrawal from childbearing and rearing but I think tbh in this day and age, most of us would be better off avoiding it. Especially women. Because even when men do their fair share, it's still us who suffer more via the physical impact.

Rather than saying be more discerning about who we have kids with (because lets face it, it can be hard to know...and sometimes they keep up an act till the kid arrives) I'd say let's start saying- consider just not having them.

As always it's about the individual men.

I'm 25 years into my second marriage and my current husband is nothing like my first.

To be honest, I doubt most of them WANT to do it, but some men are MUCH better at stepping up than others!

Totally respect your opinion, but I found having a newborn enormously challenging - each time in fact! I found it totally all encompassing and exhausting - hardest thing I’ve ever done!
We are all very different. Luckily my DH cooked meals for me and helped with sterilising bottles (some difficulties with establishing breastfeeding). Baby number 1 was not a sleeper so maybe it’s easier for parents of babies who sleep!