To think new mums are sometimes misled with the amount of ‘help’ to expect

We're all different though aren't we. I'd be aghast if someone came round and started vacuuming my house

It isn't a competition, I agree. Not one i would choose to be in either. I was just making the comparison that although pregnancy and birth can be difficult for some women, for which I have sympathy, it isn't an illness in itself nor do all women have a difficult pregnancy and birth experience. I have indeed have lots of wonderful help and support over the years for which I will be forever grateful.

And I would very well hope you had plenty of help! But it isn't a competition and not everyone has easy pregnancies and births.

Harder now as most people work so less available. Some families are great though.

"Let me hold the baby whilst you shower" I can understand, but everything else should be the parents. If family want to help, then great, but absolutely do not expect it.

Fair enough, but as I've had cancer twice, a perforated bowel requiring surgery, a bone marrow transplant and a hysterectomy pregnancy and birth were an absolute breeze in comparison.

Absolutely true.

And also, a lot of this used to happen when father’s didn’t have paternity leave - friends and family aren’t going to do the cleaning and cook meals when there’s a perfectly able bodied man who could be doing it!

My parents wanted child, so yes, they had to raise me.
Surelly you don't expect children to have some sort of gratitude for doing bare minimum as a parent and raising them?

If they want to be part of another generation, yes, I do expect them offering help the same way I offer to help my parents as an adult.

I would have been a bit offended if my visitors started cleaning while they were visiting, so I wouldn't think to start doing it for someone else (I'd be happy to if asked though). My DP had paternity leave so he did take over some cooking and cleaning til going back to work each time.

I only had visitors that I actually liked so I was quite happy to pass my babies over for cuddles and have my hands free to drink a coffee. In the first few weeks I was desperate for adult company and enjoyed giving them the full run down on my labour and birth experience!

Everyone is different though and I don't think there's any shame in needing more support, but you probably need to be specific and as for it unless you are someone who has already supported others.

That is not quite what I said. I was basically saying plan for the worst, hope for the best.

Collectively, we are all 'to blame' for the society we live in. If we'd wanted to keep living as we once did, we would have done so. Perhaps we should have.

Plenty of 'regular' people have been and still are instrumental in maintaining the wheels of capitalism. It wasn't built by aliens, you know.

It's easier to look out instead of in, isn't it? It's easier to expect the mythical 'someone else' to shape the community you live in. To do nothing to change it, then moan that it hasn't changed, that it isn't what you want it to be. To say, 'it's not my fault I can't help my neighbour, but it's my neighbour's fault she doesn't help me.'

This thread is about expectations. Expectations held by those who live in the same conditions of greed and capitalism that somebody else who is also running on the same treadmill can not only help, but should be expected to.

How does that work, exactly? If the reason we can't do it is because of this alien beast called 'capitalism' that has dropped upon us from outer space and we are mere helpless feathers, blown about by it's power, how can we possibly expect others, living under the same yoke, to shift themselves for us? And yet people do.

People complain about the loss of the 'village' as though it's an object we accidentally dropped in the sea. It isn't. It's a collection of people. Regular people. Regular people who, increasingly, are CHOOSING to close their doors on their fellow man, and only open them when they need something.

It's not entirely new. There's fables and legends going back centuries exploring the central conceit of the person who does nothing for anyone else, then cries when nobody does anything for them. It's never their fault, either.

I am not removing all 'blame' from capitalism as a societal model. But capitalism originated with people. It wasn't a divine instruction.

This!

Well, for me it was like an atomic bomb had gone off in my life. I had a CS whose scar got infected, difficulties breastfeeding, an irritable, high-needs baby who barely shut an eye, and DS had been made redundant on my due date. The last thing I wanted was visitors. So I didn’t have any for three weeks.

Well I was in the women's part of the house, I don't know where the men were but they certainly weren't sitting with us. I wonder if the poor woman was preparing even more food for the men?

@TheignT

The expectation of new mums was all the female relatives would arrive the day after the birth

Why just the female relatives?

I might be odd but I couldn't wait to show the world the amazing babies I'd created and I expected people to be queuing up for the honour of admiring them.

I think I was a bit impressed with my achievements.

The amount of content that is pushed to new mums about this “baby bubble” and not allowing visitors, you need weeks with no visitors to bond with baby, is unbelievable.
The amount of threads I see on here saying we want to bond with baby, so won’t be having visitors for 4 weeks blow my mind, especially banning parents and in laws from seeing the baby. Maybe it’s just me but I enjoyed my mum and in laws coming to see that baby for an hour or 2 every couple of days, it’s not like people expect to move in, they just want to check on you and see the baby. It’s a joyful time to have together.

I think it does happen in other cultures, it certainly did when I was young and adventurous. I was lucky enough to spend time with a family in a village in North Africa. The expectation of new mums was all the female relatives would arrive the day after the birth, the new mother was expected to prepare a meal, serve the visitors (quite a lot of them) and provide refreshments until they leave. This was somewhere where the women had to collect the water from a well and everything was prepared from scratch which included mum getting up early to bake the bread for breakfast and to spin the wool, weave the wool and then make dear husband's clothes although to be fair they didn't do that every day.

They usually went to a clinic when in strong labour and came back home almost immediately after delivery. I do remember one woman asking her husband to take her to the clinic, he said he would when she'd cooked a meal for him and the other children and had ironed some clothes for him. She was in the late stages of labour.

I think sometimes we have an idealised image of other cultures. I'm sure there are cultures where new mothers are pampered but to imagine it happens everywhere outside the western world is wrong.

Sorry if I've shattered some illusions.

Just to be clear I don't think that makes it OK for women to not get support, particularly from the man who fathered their baby I just wanted to clarify that these things don't always happen the way we think they do.

I had a village - it was a literal village with aunties and uncles granny and grandad close by, old style neighbours who managed the balance of minding their business and yet being aware if you were struggling or needed help and being willing to offer.

It doesn't have to be intrusive to keep an eye out for someone who might need an extra hand for little while, just a text to say you are popping into town and do they need anything. We text to ask for lifts for our kids to the bus stop, we've delivered dinners to the unwell man down the road and to his young adult son in the year or so after his father passed. I drove him 10 miles to his job dozens of times until he sorted out his own transport. And when there's an old person who needs a strapping young lad to help them with things around the house, he offers to help.

You opt in to the system or don't as you prefer, (like one neighbour doesn't like to interact so she gets left alone as she prefers) but you can't go bitching about friends family and neighbours leaving you to your own devices if you yourself never bothered with them when they needed that village.

My DM and I did some of that sort of help of my DSis, because she was visibly not coping (v high needs baby 1st time, baby in NICU the 2nd).

I'm not sure I'd plunge in unasked if it were a friend. Make the tea, sure.

I agree here. My mam/ sisters/brothers/ best friends offered to do laundry/ quick clean of kitchen/ bring in bits from the shop/ you go for a nap which was brilliant. Particularly when DH was back at work, so really useful during the day or when he was working late. I repaid the favour BTW.

Other family/ friends came to see us & baby & entertained the other DC (v helpful).

There's a mix, you know.

Also adults should really be able to use their words. I recall visiting my brother and wife with their going baby. When I arrived they asked if I would mind watching their kids for a couple of hours as they were exhausted and needed a nap.

I was more than happy to. But they asked. They did not sit their silently expecting me to magically know what help they would need.

It’s that stupid “it takes a village”. It’s lovely and sweet to have family and friends that will assist but it really should not be an expectation.

Not everybody wants to look after small children and that’s fine.

The only help that can reasonably be expected is from your actual partner.

(And tbh when they say “help” they mean from other women. They never say that to men.)

I hate this. All this puts the blame on regular people. It’s greed within capitalism that has done this TO people.

When my DC were young I just had DH to help. No family help. Mum was still working and wouldn't have gone put of her way to actually help.
For desperate need I had a colleague of DHs .
My NDN did offer to baby sit so we could have an evening out, but as she'd never been friendly before that point I didn't take her up on it. She had grandchildren arrive soon after that and had no offers after that.

But many other mums locally eg in the antenatal class had loads of help from their mums so I can understand the feeling that others have more support.