To think new mums are sometimes misled with the amount of ‘help’ to expect

In that case surely I can come on to the child free board and tell all the posters complaining about being lonely and disconnected " Well I am really surprised that you are surprised.".

I wasn’t speaking for you? I spoke from the perspective of someone who is childfree and constantly surprised by mums who are surprised how hard raising a child is.

"As much as child free lifestyle works for you at the moment, who is going to look after you in nursing home or be part of the medical team at the hospital? Who's the next generation of tax payers? Surely that is someone else's kids who they sacrificed to raise."

So weary of this complete and utter crock of shit being trotted out. Spare us your sacrifices.

And what about the significant share of offspring who turn out to be losers, criminal, abusers, addicts, deadbeat dads, teen parents, unemployable and other antisocial traits? Do parents want to be held accountable for THOSE outcomes? Pay back all the child benefits, for starters,since they didn't do a good job of it?

It runs both ways. Parents need to stop patting themselves on the back and exhorting the rest of us to be grateful, unless they are willing to compensate the village for the frequent and burdensome poor outcomes that ripple out negatively through our communities and society.

I have not found the moments of fun to be rare and while a hard slog, its been worth it for me. The difficult early years are very short. I have spent this weekend lounging in bed and watching Day of the Jackal while my DS cooks me lunch.

If the child free quite rightly do not want parents to come into their section and tell them how" meaningless' their lives are, please do not come onto new mum threads and tell mums how boring our lives are. You do not speak for us.

I’m not shaming anyone. It’s just surprising how many women are surprised by how hard it is.

@StormingNorman If you choose to be child-free good for you. Why come onto a mum's discussion forum and shame mothers for "needing a break"?

Women have to sacrifice their lifestyle, their body and risk their own lives to bring forth new life. Do you think they don't understand that before having kids? But when your kid wakes up every hour for days and weeks on end during different phases, these women are severely sleep deprived. It is also a form of torture adopted in warfare. The tiredness can be so extreme that it unsafe for both mothers and their baby. As much as they love their babies and giving their 100 percent, they need to sleep to basically function.

A better functioning mother, who's got a moment to briefly refresh herself will allow her to better raise her kids, who in turn hopefully become better adults. As much as child free lifestyle works for you at the moment, who is going to look after you in nursing home or be part of the medical team at the hospital? Who's the next generation of tax payers? Surely that is someone else's kids who they sacrificed to raise. A kind gesture of helping a friend or family member once in a while goes a long way.

Not my experience of it at all.

Didn’t have much help; didn’t really want or need it.

Mostly enjoyed all of it.

No-one can generalise.

I feel surprised at the responses. Just because some people did it without any help doesn't mean new parents doesn't deserve support.

I am guilty of not understanding what support was needed until I became a mother myself. However, I did send cakes/pastries over to my neighbour when they had a newborn and that was pre having a child myself.

Knowing what I know now, I have sent a package of gourmet lactation cookies to a friend who's just given birth to help with her having something to snack on when she's busy. If I do visit friends or family I will definitely offer to do some quick win chores (like load the dish washer, do a quick vacuum) or just offer to look after the baby so the new mother can take a shower.

Not sure why we can't strive to be better than putting new mother's needs down. That's exactly why new mother's have post partum depression when they don't feel like they can ask for help and everyone around them saying how "they managed all on their own".

If you are a visitor with nothing to contribute then suggest don't go because that's one more load for the new parents to host unless you are specially invited to come over empty handed.

Nothing I have seen IRL or on MN has proved me wrong yet though. Most posts about parenting seem to be a variation on I need time without my children/not parenting. Most mum friends are desperate for a break from their kids.

Women who choose not to have children now that they cannot give 100% of their time and energy to caring for someone else. Women who have children don’t realise that this is expected until they’ve had children.

Generalising about something of which you admit to having no experience isn’t a good basis for a worldview.

I have no kids so I’ll share what all childfree-by-choice people instinctively know. Child rearing is a long, hard, boring and utterly relentless slog.

You are on your own with the drudgery and weighed down by exhaustion and self-pity because you don’t get enough time to recharge your batteries each day.

It’s up to each woman to decide whether this life is worth it for rare moments of fun because there are no guarantees anybody else is going to relieve you of your children.

Since joining MN I have found it shocking how many women decide to have babies without fully comprehending how awful and lonely it is going to be 99% of the time.

The visitors are probably terrified to offer any help in case they cause offence.

Shall I take baby for a walk while you shower...omg overstepping my boundaries.

Shall I tidy for you....omg she thinks I'm a slob

And so on....

New mum here!! I had also seen these posts and videos promising this that and the other. Being slightly older I knew to ignore this rubbish. My house is a bit scruffy for my liking but I manage to get some things done. I have no one at all around me (just sheep) so had no choice than rely on myself. DP is working all hours but helps at weekends to give me break. Now have a thriving 3month old DS and things are getting better everyday. She just needs to hang on in there and it’ll be fine ☺️

I think it would be okay to expect some help from close family members and maybe even close friends. Maybe not cooking or cleaning from friends though my sister is the type of person who takes meals to people struggling with bereavements etc so these people exist and we should have more of them in the world. I had a good friend who came round soon after my baby was born and I asked her to bring soup. I did make us a sandwich though to go with it. To me, these are the signs of good friendship, and good family support and it is nice to reciprocate and support one another when we can. I feel sorry for your friend that she feels let down, having a newborn is abit like being hit by a truck, nothing can prepare you for how relentless it is. Hopefully she feels better for speaking about how she feels.

I disagree. Doing it alone is a very modern, western, phenomenon. And I personally am glad we're allowed to vocalize our struggles these days.

This should be corrected as it very highly depends on your culture. I know many people who have parents and family that will help. I was lucky in that I received a lot of help from family - even 6 months after my baby was born - but it was all rooted in culture and expectations.

I’m in London where there is a blend of cultures - and not everyone lives close to family - so there are a variety of experiences. If I went on social media, I would probably have millions of different views of how to treat a new mother. Some stay with mums and will do everything. Some just cost, give gifts and come on bdays.

Id say at the moment the community and villge element is lacking! People don’t help. So I really do feel for your sister. But she is lucky she has a partner - and you (I guess). She will have to work on building her support system - or like many do, pay for her support system. I also understand why people don’t help - we are all too busy - and we are in an individualist culture.

She would go on about how she “coped”.

'Cope' is a word from the MN dictionary of sneers, how dare anyone 'cope'? The fact is that women have been having babies since time immemorial, it's not new at all, and the vast majority have 'coped', ie not made a song and dance about it, expecting every man and his dog to worship her fecundity!

Don’t be silly. There is a world of difference between struggling with one baby and that posters post. Some people are martyrs.

Love how the word 'martyr' is trotted out against anyone who doesn't match the MN profile that having one baby to look after is hard work! Some of us were lucky in our baby's temperament but a lot of the modern child rearing fashion is responsible for many problems experienced.

All sorts of help is promised for all sorts of things.. new babies.. many miscarriages.. kids with disabilities.. losing a husband in his 40's.. remaining parent with Alzheimers.. it never materialises. Boy, am I a tough cookie now!

Well since the ‘village’ is mostly working very hard all the hours to support its own families these days, why not pressure the government to follow the Dutch approach which sounds brilliant? https://amp.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2023/oct/25/a-home-help-for-eight-days-after-giving-birth-why-dutch-maternity-care-is-the-envy-of-the-world

I'm very resilient because I've had to be but I still think we should care more for people who are having a tough time, whether that is moving house, having a baby, recovering from surgery etc etc.

I find this thread rather sad tbh.

My neighbour went back home each time she had a baby and was looked after by relatives as that's expected in her culture and whilst that may have been a bit smothering for me, being a friend and lightening the load of someone else if I'm able to is part of the journey.

I always take a meal suitable for the family I'm visitong and offer to do light chores when I visit a newborn. I've been parenting 25 years. Also offer to take other kids to park for a bit etc or for the day depending on our relationship.

I think that we all have to act how we would like to be treated. A few years back we cleaned the downstairs part of house of a friend each week whilst she got back on her feet after a traumatic week.

As a parent I swap childcare and lifts to activities, and generally help out where I can. I don't have extended family to help and there are similar people around me. Over the years I've worked from full time to part time to being a sahp and being a single parent or married so it hasn't just been because I'm home and available with a decent disposable income.

There has been a time or two I've been taken advantage but I've gotten better at setting boundaries.

DH and I could have managed easily while he wasn't working (self-employed, so took a week off with DS1 and a fortnight for DS2) but after he went back to work I was still recovering from a c-section and it would have been tricky. But my Mum staying was lovely, even when DH was there - as the mother of 4 she wasn't remotely intimidated by the tiny menace, while DH and I were scared he might break or explode or something. It was lovely to have Mum to chat to, or to be able to have cuddles with sleeping infant and DH while Mum cooked us something. When DS2 was born, it was also fab that my Dad took him out several times so that DS1 didn't feel pushed out and over-babied. It wasn't perhaps required, but it was lovely and made life calmer and easier, both times.

I turned up to a friends with a home made Chicken casserole when she had given birth but culturally that just seems right to me. She was really surprised but delighted. I’m born in England but from a different culture with an English slant I guess. I always offer to help new Mothers. My new neighbours had a baby last year, I didn’t know them well at all. So didn’t offer as didn’t want to be ‘that odd neighbour’ but would happily have done stuff for them. New Mothers need to be cherished and cared for. The body goes through so much.

My Mother stayed for 2 weeks, she would have stayed longer but couldn’t unfortunately. She cooked, cleaned, let me sleep ran me saltwater baths to heal me and was brilliant. My English MIL turned up, took photos, enjoyed showing off she was a Grandmother and did nothing to help. That affirmed the cultural divide for me. If I end up a MIL I will not assume help is required especially if I end up with a DIL who is of a different culture but will offer assistance.