Families when someone is wanting to change genders

We were very carefully trying to balance the internet usage of my teen and I insisted that before 15 that I had access to their instagram account (because instagram had a age minimum so at the time we felt it was better to limit to platforms with suitable age limits and that we have access too).

At 14 my teen was being exposed in a group chat (all school friends that I knew) to Peppa Pig ‘blood play’ and ‘incest’ porn that came from school friends who posted their ‘fun’ story they group created on discord. Turns out the group discord (not something my teen had access to) was a LGBT discord group and this was a story that was posted there being supposedly created by these two female school friends and some others. The others were supposedly other teenaged female people. I doubt they were teenaged female people, but I know the two who were in that instagram group chat and they were young vulnerable girls.

I don't understand where you say he doesn't actually want to be a woman he just wants top surgery.
What does he want the outcome to be? Has he spoken about why he feels that way.

If he’s gay I doubt he’ll find a partner if he has knockers. Gay men tend to be attracted to the male body type. Make it make sense!

Yes, the wide eyed emo anime knee socks look is particularly sinister to me. In a lot of the texts it feels like paedophilia in plain sight that people just haven't cottoned on to yet. This may not be what your son is going for OP but I'd be uncomfortable if it was, to be honest. Is he even aware of the message he's potentially giving if he makes the choice to dress like that. Women can't dress exactly as they please in every situation and neither can he.

Wearing overly sexualised clothes that make others uncomfortable in a social setting is a sign of something needing exploring as to why this is happening in a teenager. Is it too low sexual boundaries for instance, and if so where has that come from?

“I’d suggest that losing people who can’t accept your godson for who he is isn’t really a loss. If someone feels uncomfortable simply because of how he expresses himself, that reflects more on their biases than on him. Surrounding yourself with compassionate, inclusive people (and there are plenty of those, despite how it may seem on MN) fosters a much healthier and more supportive environment for everyone.”

I disagree. If a person is behaving in ways that include for instance, wearing overtly sexualised clothing and behaviour that make their established social group uncomfortable, it is not just about how that person is ‘expressing’ themselves. There are definitely elements at play here to explore.

Finding a group who accept that type of behaviour can be immensely harmful to vulnerable young people. Because those groups are not just ‘accepting’ of lowered sexual boundaries but encourage that behaviour for reasons that are not of benefit to that vulnerable young person.

having read your first post do you think social services would think your younger child has been well safeguarded through this?

Unfortunately I think boundaries have become blurred. Your younger children are not being well safeguarded with a 19 year old male that you admit you have already had to intervene with because of the revealing nature of what he was wearing around a younger child.

I don’t think he understands what a gay man is, but it is certainly not tits and miniskirts. Honestly if you are asking because you genuinely want to help him, get him some therapy as a matter of urgency.

But if he is like my teen, how do you know what he is watching with headphones on?

We had to make a policy of watching anime together so that it wasn’t the Hentai versions. But even in other anime the over sexualisation of female people was rife.

I think that the current emo styles do reflect the anime influence. Which is about looking like overly sexualised girls (ie children )

I’m just gaging what other people would do in this situation as I don’t want my younger son to feel uncomfortable in his own room, and I don’t want my older son to feel like he can’t be who he wants. But it’s just so difficult

Whoops, posted too soon.

I think it's hard for people to know what they would do. I know I wouldn't support my nineteen year old getting breast implants.

My teenagers know my opinion that you can't change your biological sex. Both of mine have over dramatically announced that they are bisexual. And both were rather taken aback that we were completely at ease with that.

They also know that as women they can't dress however they might want to dress all of the time because of society. It might not be fair but you just can't. You have to be constantly thinking about your safety.

So like your son, my dd can't 'be who she wants to be' with regards to clothes. But I've told my dd that.

Oh just started reading backwards
as I had only read the first pages and see I have cross posted.

I would avoid any LGBT support groups OP. Despite what some posters declare will be neutral advice, I very highly doubt it will be. And please, please be aware that lately there has been a number of significant safeguarding red flags in those groups, Even some male people from those types of groups convicted of sex offences in the UK.

Bayswater Support group will have contacts I am sure for you to look at.

Is he watching the porn soaked Anime genres?

You said the skirts were too short so there must be something raising your discomfort here.

As you said he is wanting breast surgery (meaning larger than oestrogen derived breasts) but doesn’t want to be a woman, is he watching drag content?

Absolutely. Get his phone. Read all his messages. Check his Discord and Reddit usage, posts and history. He will have caught this idea from somewhere.

Absolutely.

I can also recommend https://www.bayswatersupport.org.uk/about_us/

your child desperately needs exploring, questioning mental health support. Please don’t affirm him in any way - also the focus on trans parts of his issue is called diagnostic overshadowing. He needs holistic whole person help. Not just gender questioning support.

From experience with my son I can tell you that therapists and the NHS, for any kind of gender issues, are useless. All they do is agree and encourage.

I’m just gaging what other people would do in this situation as I don’t want my younger son to feel uncomfortable in his own room, and I don’t want my older son to feel like he can’t be who he wants. But it’s just so difficult

Sorry OP - but knee-high socks and miniskirts absolutely is inspired by anime porn (the boob job idea feeds into this - anime girls in these clothes generally have massive boobs) - does he have some manga books? Have a flick through, or watch some of the anime he no doubt watches to see what you're dealing with - but prepared to be horrified. Especially if you have to look up any of the words used.

I know you say you monitor his internet, but you might not realise that what he's reading/chatting about is so far over the line.

I personally would not allow any adult male to dress like your son does in my home, especially when you have younger children and he is doing it in their space.
It's funny really, when men choose to dress as women It's all short skirts, fishnet tights, knee high socks and huge heels etc. In reality the women/teen girls I know wear hoodies/jeans/trainers. Have you asked him why he doesn't want to wear hoodies/jeans and trainers like most women his age will be wearing? Answer, because it's a sexual fetish and you are all unintentionally playing along with it.
I would tell him he is welcome to wear womens jumpers/jeans/joggers around the house and see what his reaction is, personally I would bin all of the other crap and if he really wants to wear it he would have to move out.

OK this is a difficult question but when he's dressed up in the non-PG clothes, is he visibly turned on? Because if so then this is more likely to be a sexual fetish than gender dysphoria, and definitely not appropriate for your younger son to be witnessing. I think you need to find a better living situation where your DS2 has his own room, as a priority, OP.

Of course he’s got these porn-soaked anime-influenced ideas from the internet! Where else do you think he’s got them from? He will be on Reddit and Discord etc. He is a vulnerable young man whose sexual identity is being formed and warped by this online cult. You seem staggeringly naive.

There’s no such thing as non binary

You need to get him off the internet asap.

Your perspective may differ significantly from that of someone directly in the situation. It’s easy to look at someone else’s struggles and imagine what could have been done differently, but the reality is often far more complex. Hearing from him and his parents would provide a fuller picture of the challenges and decisions they’ve faced.

While it sounds like their social gatherings have changed, I’d suggest that losing people who can’t accept your godson for who he is isn’t really a loss. If someone feels uncomfortable simply because of how he expresses himself, that reflects more on their biases than on him. Surrounding yourself with compassionate, inclusive people (and there are plenty of those, despite how it may seem on MN) fosters a much healthier and more supportive environment for everyone. Judgmental company isn’t worth mourning.

Some of the language you’ve used in your post comes across as dismissive and unkind. I would suggest approaching the situation with curiosity and empathy in future, rather than conclusions and judgment.

Stop kidding yourself OP. Knee high socks on a 19u old male is not emo, it's sissy porn, and it will escalate You have a small window to help him. Woman up

I agree. He is accessing this stuff somewhere and your younger children shouldn’t be exposed to this.

Stop kidding yourself OP. Knee high socks on a 19u old male is not emo, it's sissy porn, and it will escalate You have a small window to help him. Woman up.

I'm not trying to hurt you, but I'm sure what I said on this thread does hurt, and I'm sorry for that. I'm not coming at this blindly or from a distance. I have a 25 yr godson w/ ADHD (his mother thinks he also has autism but no testing as yet for that) who came out as trans around a similar age as your DS (5 or so years ago) and I've watched it tear their family up and see daily how it messes w/ his head. My godson was reluctantly affirmed as his parents bought the whole suicide nonsense. He's not done well since his 'coming out'. The hormones have wrecked havoc and his once very healthy and fit body is now obese (not genetic). Estrogen has also damaged his cognition...he struggles with thoughts and understanding that he didn't as a teenager. When I first talked to him, letting him share his reasoning for this transition (he trusts me a great deal), it was evident early on how he's very much influenced by porn and reddit and his My Little Pony discord group. I love him, and I love his parents, but his mom has really gone down a rabbit hole as she can't see him for what he really is...he's a 6-foot man, built like a sumo wrestler who dresses like he thinks he's a thirteen year old girl who's been sex trafficked. That sounds harsh, but it's the truth. But our family dynamic doesn't like the truth. I feel we all could have stopped this had we, as a family, been far more firm earlier on.

I just wince thinking of the parents with blinders on as to the impact of their adult male children on any children, let alone women. If your DS2 has friends over, for example, their parents might very well be extremely uncomfortable knowing DS2 has an older brother dressing like that, even if it's just emo skirt/tights (I have teen and young adult DDs and neither do they nor any of their female friends dress like that). I doubt many families would want their kids exposed to this. Please don't minimize that. I hope your son gets help as I understand autism makes the gender thing really confusing and while he's partially a victim of this zeitgeist, he's also a young man who can cause issues for others if it's not stopped.

My dear friends used to have large social gatherings with many families. A few years ago, only about 5% of their normal friends showed up. They don't want their kids around my godson, they don't want to have to share space with a man in anime girls wear, and I don't blame them.