To feel that many men are totally unprepared and unsuited to domesticity?

@Forky1 I've found the best way to deal with the mental load is simply transferring a fair amount of admin jobs to dh. He sorts his out or they don't get done. He then has to deal with the consequences.

'Everyone in history' used to think women were 'genetically' mentally inferior. My stepfather spent years telling me that 'genetically' women aren't good drivers and can't hold down management positions.

Women don't have this magic, genetic ability to do housework. I certainly haven't, I can promise you that. I have just been 'trained' into it. Because so many people believe the sort of 'genetic' taradiddle that kept the glass ceiling firmly in place, men still aren't being trained like women are into cleaning. That's why men don't see it. They aren't taught to see it.

The problem isn't that now we think men and women aren't different. It's actually the opposite. Somehow we have gone back to this outdated idea that men and women are SO different that if you exhibit certain tendencies as a man, you must in fact, be a woman, and vice versa.

The biggest issue for me that most men don’t seem to grasp is the “mental load” women carry. Yes, there are many men that can do domestic tasks when nudged by their partners to do so but it seems to be accepted that women will carry the “mental load” alone- housework, food shopping, booking childcare and kids clubs, booking dental appointments, buying school uniform. The lot.

Many men think they are helpful as they may clean a bathroom when asked or take the bins out but this doesn’t compensate for the mental load women carry.

That’s because many women will overlook a great deal to have children. We never talk about it much on MN but where all these women moan about useless men once they’ve had two kids to them it’s the women prioritising having children over having a suitable partner.

Because they're too important, silly.

Disclaimer: #NAMALT (not all men are like that)

Whenever I see threads of women who complain about being left to do it all, there is usually at least one smart poster asking if he acts the same way at work or his own house was a mess before they moved in together. Sometimes the answer will be that his own house was a mess and other times it will be that he was very neat before he moved in. At work, he always seems to be able to be somewhat organized; at least enough to not get in trouble for it.

The answer to why they leave their female partners with all the household and child-rearing duties is: patriarchy

They believe they are entitled to live of the efforts of their female partners and will kick up a fuss if they do not get what they believe is rightfully their. It's the entire way they view women. At least up until the point they you have daughters and see how they are being treated, then it becomes a problem. Although there are exceptions to this rule as well. Some father can't even see their own flesh and blood as human beings, particularly if said flesh and blood are female.

It's entirely a choice. This sort of behavior is not in either male or female DNA. So if a men leaves you to do it all, it's because he looks down on you.

Great, this old trope again!

People aren’t going to change their minds, but I have noticed a pattern on here. Those that believe that men are ‘genetically programmed’ to be able to hold down a job, spend all their time in their hobby - miraculously able to clean their cars, bikes, golf clubs, just not the bathroom, seem to end up with those sort of men.

Those that think both sexes are capable of looking after themselves and each other, able to hold down a job and clean a house, tend up together.

So, maybe it’s just personal preference, rather than the fact genetic engineering has somehow morphed into the ability to clean a tap with a toothbrush.

That's why I'm so glad I'll never need to bother with any of them, anymore.
Set up for life, domesticated or not, they can go to hell.
😂

I am lying in bed with a cup of tea brought to me by my husband. He is now downstairs sorting laundry, emptying the dishwasher etc. 🤷‍♀️

No it's not. Women weren't born with a domestic goddess manual in hand. It's just men prefer not to do boring stuff and too many women allow it. It's not some innate desire to do it that makes women do more housework. It's socialisation. There should be equal free time for both partners in a relationship and currently women pick up far too much and consider men's contribution 'helping'. It's not helping to keep your home habitable. It's lazy and unattractive to expect someone else to clean up after you.

Sarcasm alert - Yeah it's fundamental that they are incompetent at anything domestic because they are not really human beings after all but sone poor subspecies with learning difficulties

Or perhaps - This proves men are the superior species as they manage to get away with a much better life then them stupid women who take on all the boring stuff and even faff around with dusting the skirting boards rather than living life

Perfectly possible for both men and women to successfully provide and nurture. All depends on whether you want to.

Don't blame gaming, my dh games and does more housework than me.

It’s nature, the way they are wired by nature. Men are wired to provide and women are wired to nurture

Of course not all men are like that. That's a given. But it's no good saying MN is skewed - every survey always shows that women are still carrying way more of the domestic load, even if both partners work full time.

I expect there is a genetic element to some extent, but decent, men who aren't selfish, lazy or misogynist are more than capable of overriding that and doing their bit. I think women often fool themselves into ignoring red flags before marriage, or hope their lazy partner will magically reform omce kids arrive.

I THOUGHT my partner was well-trained when we moved in together. I then came to realise he has a deep seated traditional view of 'womens work' having been mollycoddled by his mum. I think the way boys are raised to respect everyone, not just women and be team players in all aspects of their life is key.

I have had to work hard to change my partner's view and to prevent and curtail learned uselessness. If he asks where something is that I know literally staring him in the face, I just say 'oh well, we must have run out of it'. It is still work in progress, the other day- while I am cleaning the kitchen having just churned out the latest round of Christmas food. He is standing in front of the open fridge, asking me what is in the fridge......and if the mango right in front of him is ripe....apparently 'just poke it and see' is a sarcastic response.

My son shows my partner how to top-up dishwasher salt, where the specific cleaners are for things, how to use the oven properly, clean the coffee machine, collapse the airer, how to cook pasta properly. My son is 14 and attends a special school, my partner is a 50 something man with apparently 'a very important job'. I want my son to be an equal team member with a partner, of whatever gender he chooses for a relationship in the future. My son is very helpful and caring and seems to have retained these qualities even as a teenager. Let's hope I am releasing one decent man out into the wild for one of your young people!

Some men are also overly obsessive about keeping the house clean. Whilst this might sound great in comparison to a bloke that does no cleaning, it can be really detrimental when partners or children are nervous about doing everyday house things like taking a shower or making a cup of tea.

I hope you’re not replicating the same behaviours in your DC’s?

I certainly grew up seeing mum running about doing everything at home while my dad did what he wanted and I think that's the same for a lot of my generation. My DH is much better than my dad but I can still tell he feels more of an inclination than me to 'put his feet up' and is less given to noticing stuff needs to be done, or acting when he does.

So it's women's fault?

Nowadays the housing crisis has meant too many people live at home without going through that fending for yourself phase that’s so important.

Yup. I wouldn't move in with someone who did not live alone before, shared house etc is fine.

I am always slightly 😳 when I see people saying "we are buying house together and moving together, we still live with our parents". What a leap of faith in there! For both sides

I think it goes beyond that. These men seem to actually not care about their partners at all.
I have a dh and brothers who were all brought up in a 'traditional' family and as boys, had no expectations of housework. Yet, they manage fine because how their wife feels matters to them.
They don't want to see their wife exhausted and miserable when they could do stuff too.
Every one of my friends partners is the same. And they also all seem to love their kids and want to do things with them which highlights another trait of these men that the op is talking about. They don't seem to care about their kids either.

I hope you’re not raising your DS’s to be so useless?