To feel that many men are totally unprepared and unsuited to domesticity?

It not porn though.

It's torture porn.

Torture porn is available. I do think it's a problem aswell in society.

You seem a bit hung up on porn. Society is far more complex than freely available porn, of which I might add over half of women regularly access and enjoy.

They may well be unprepared but they are not innately unsuited. Butlers were always men - a high-status and well-paid job, paid more than any of the female servants, on top of all the details of catering and housekeeping and all that for a big team. When doing "menial" and "domestic" tasks gets them status and money, men can do it. (See also: chefs, hotel managers etc). If childcare / elderly care started coming with £100k a year and a title people respect, men would start doing it, and mostly doing it bloody well, probably.

I don't think wanting to be a Dad or a Mum has anything to do with domestic tasks. First and foremost we both wanted a child, the domestic set up was an organic process and it wasn't always ideal.

I don't think we either one of us is a natural at domesticity as there is a danger of being bored to death by it. However, we have a tidy, clean house as the alternative it not for us.

that's not what I'm saying. I'm not saying that women are fertile for their whole lives.

Im saying that males used to tell women that women weren't fertile beyond age 35/36. They told women that pregnancies after thar age were "geriatric".

When that is not true.

Many Women are fertile and are able to get pregnant well into their late forties

So we have much more time on the biological clock, then we were told that we had

Men are not biologically programmed to be partners at all. Left to their own devices, most would have sex with as many women as possible and not be around to even meet the children. They prefer sex to children. We are animals. Our nearest animal relatives are not monogamous. Why would we be any different? Bonobo fathers do absolutely bugger all

Does this mean then that women who are not interested in children or monogamy or baking or mopping are somehow 'programmed' wrong?

Humans have evolved significantly beyond all other animals.

It’s laughable nonsense to claim men’s genetics prevent them being able to use a mop and bucket.

I mean we know for a fact that women are not fertile their entire lives.

We know for a fact that for a woman, conceiving and carrying a baby to term becomes much harder as we age.

So we know for a fact the biological clock is true. No point engaging in You Tube esque myth making.

Men are not biologically programmed to be partners at all. Left to their own devices, most would have sex with as many women as possible and not be around to even meet the children. They prefer sex to children. We are animals. Our nearest animal relatives are not monogamous. Why would we be any different? Bonobo fathers do absolutely bugger all.

If it was true that women were more “incapable of controlling their emotions” then the violent crime statistics and prison population numbers would look very different.

The data on domestic labour shows clearly that women do more of it.

It’s not a stereotype.

I do agree with this. I have been called nihilistic on here before for my views though!

I really feel like women have been sold a big whopping fat lie for years. That you cannot be happy unless you are saddled with a man and kids. If this is what you are taught from a young age, and bombarded with all the time, then of course you will settle for any old scruff and have a load of kids. By the time you wake up at 45 and think where the fuck is MY life, it's too late.

How do we know that the biological clock was ever true?

I think that the biological clock is a lie that was invented by men, to make women think that they have very little time and that women have to rush into marriage and kids.

When I was young I was definitely told that women qere only fertile until around 36. And that every pregnancy after that is extremely rare.

The older I get, I realise that is simply not true.

I know of lots of women who have had babies in their forties. My cousin is pregnant now at age 46.

I think that men just lied to us and led us to believe that we would become infertile at age 40. When it is not true!

Women can have babies well into their forties. And maybe some in their fifties.

The biological clock gives men a lot of power in this regard.

Most women want to experience motherhood. Waiting for a decent partner / equal partner would mean most women’s clock running out while searching.

Also misogynist conditioning reinforces to women that is just “how men are” so they accept it till it becomes too much to bear.

Couldn't men make the counter-argument about women? Just switching around OP's original words:

Spending hours scrolling/shopping, incapable of regulating their emotions (I think men would say women are worse at this!), emotional outbursts, emotion-led decisions, expecting Daddy 2.0 from their husbands (being spoiled, showered with presents, dinners, cosmetics, etc), utterly lacking in empathy and care after a hard manual labour day's work, expecting full participation/parenting after a 12-hour day...

Obviously all of the above is a stereotype (as was OP's post), and not really based on my own experience.

There are a lot of historical myths on this thread too. Poorer women have always worked on farms, factories, mining, textiles. It was a mark of Victorian middle class wealth when your wife didn’t need to work.
The idea that women were at home playing house whilst the men toiled to provide is simply not true.

The reality is that women’s labour has been historically undervalued and discounted. The hangover of that is the tens of thousands of women successfully bringing equal pay claims against councils and retailers.

Housework was seen as valueless so some men think they are too important to do it.

Decent men don’t. DH comes from a different (ostensibly more patriarchal culture) yet he has been a very hands on parent and taken an equal or greater share of housework. Our sons have grown up with a father that cooks, cleans, does laundry and irons. He is as competent and capable as I am because these are not gendered skills nor are they driven sex based innate characteristics (women do not have a floor mopping gene!!).

@HardenYourHeart

So if a men leaves you to do it all, it's because he looks down on you.

I would go further and say he probably hates you. If a man can watch his female partner run ragged while he continues to take it easy, enjoy his hobbies and his leisure time he genuinely cannot value her that much.

My step-dad is naturally a slob yet he pulls his weight around the house. He does that because he loves my mom and does not want to see her stressed and exhausted. It’s not 50/50 but he does significantly more around the house than he would if he was single (when he lived in filth.)

Not all men exhibit these traits, many like mine are deeply empathetic, emotionally mature, and active partners. Negative experiences may simply be more memorable and could be creating a skewed perception.

A lot of it is men's fault.

But some of it is women's fault

I see so many women treating their adult sons like babies

I have a lot of cousins. I have 15. Every one of my female cousins moved out of home in their early twenties. I have 8 male cousins. 6 of my male cousins are still living at hone with mummy. All of my male cousins are in their mid to late thirties. Their mums wait on them hand and foot.

It's kind of a disturbing relationship. And it's the mothers fault as much as the sons. The mothers seem to treat their sons as substitute husbands. They want love from a male, so they treat their son like a Prince and wait on him hand and foot.

This then leads the man - to treat his future wife like a total servant aswell.

It’s hardly surprising. Women have only had rights for about a century. That’s not long in terms of generations and genes. Men were originally hunter gatherers, women were the carers and nurturers. Society is still adapting to these fast changes.

Personally as an autistic woman none of this comes naturally to me either. The judgement from other women is what keeps me in line. My mother’s scorn was very powerful on its own. If the world was just me and men I certainly wouldn’t be tidying up and cleaning.

This!!! This is the absolute truth, end of.

Agreed. My brothers contribute equally to their households (one is also the primary carer for his kids and does 100% of the cooking) because that’s how my mom raised us.

Probably why my standards for an equal partner are so high.

I watched in delight via the camera notifications (installed for ex being on bail for DA, and new bf can disarm them but he prefers to talk to me through them when I'm at work, like today) made the bed properly, cleared up our kitchen party for 2 that looked like I'd had 20 people round. Mopped the kitchen and put the dishwasher on! He can stay again......

I'm fairly sure that men invented "marriage" to get a woman servant for life.

It's not natural. To sign a contract to agree to be in a relationship forever