To feel that many men are totally unprepared and unsuited to domesticity?

I don’t think it’s 100% genetics, though - it’s largely cultural and how children are socialised. Human society has been patriarchal/misogynistic for millennia, even though it hurts men at the same time as benefiting them and giving them unfair advantages over women.

It's nothing to do with BDSM.

The vast vast majority of porn shows WOMEN, not men, being physically hurt, tortured and degraded during sex.

Porn doesn't show loving kind respectful sex.

It shows : women being pushed into sex. Women being degraded. In so many ways.

If it is about BDSM, why is there barely any porn showing men being physically hurt and degraded?

Porn shows women being physically hurt, choked, and viciously abuses.

It definitely does have a psychological affect on men.

I remember the first poronographic photo that I was ever shown. A young man in my college class showed me a pornagraphic photo in class to upset me. The photo showed a man ramming a kitchen utensil up a naked womans vagina. She was wincing in pain.

There have been a lot of rape cases lately where the men have not just raped the women, but the have forcefully inserted objects into the womans vagina. That idea has definitely come from watching porn.

Case of note: in france , rugby players raped a woman with a crutch.

I'm not sure blanket statements are particularly helpful. I've had a partner who was really neat and tidy at home, another who left everything at his arse but was obsessed with cleaning the bathroom.

Recently, I met a man who talked repeatedly about how broke he was and how he hardly ever goes out due to the cost. Then, he revealed that he has a cleaner because he can't do housework. I was a little surprised that someone who was struggling financially and had plenty of spare time prioritised paying for a cleaner. But, at least his place is always clean! (We aren't dating, just friends)

Haha this is one of the best posts I've read on MN.

Neither me nor my DH are 'interested' in house work - is anyone?! It's super boring and annoying. But still sadly needs to be done to a minimum standard for hygiene and comfort.

Driving - I can't drive, but that's to do with disability not my sex, so it's true DH does the driving.

Pinterest - no thank you. Never used it, same for DH.

Shelves - again yes DH but again I'm impacted by disability.

Baby - both of us! I wouldn't have had kids with a man who wouldn't coo over his own baby!

Yeah I don’t get this. One of my best friends is a married man with two kids.

He sends me invites to things and Christmas cards etc and I know from spending time at his house and around his family it’s also him who keeps in touch with his own family (siblings, mum etc) and organises video calls etc - not his wife.

None of my female friends do this PA stuff for their husbands that I’m aware of. I think it’s just not the norm in my social circle for this to happen.

Bdsm is not a new thing. It might not be to your taste but it’s part of what makes people human. Men AND women freely enjoy it.

Doubt it's a conscious decision for many but something they naturally took on.

I need my own PA, I certainly wouldn't be very good at being someone else's.

She’s only his PA if she’s daft enough to agree to it. I heard of a family where the father couldn’t even work out how to take his DC’s for new school shoes! He’d never bought any of their clothes or shoes and hadn’t a clue what size they were.

Actually, think about the language being used here…..trapped, not natural. This is coming from women who are describing themselves thus. But no one, no rules, not even our UK culture says that women have to live like this. So much of the way women live is about them conforming to how they actually think they should live, rather than how they would really like to live. The true pioneers of breaking free from conformity haven’t come from the 21st century, but back in the 20th C, particularly the 1960’s. Most women nowadays are far too worried about not conforming to the relationship/marriage, have children, raise children, try and hold down a job mindset to truly be free thinking.

I think it's mainly because a woman is expected to be a man's PA. She gets the blame if contact isn't kept up or important dates are missed.

@JHound

The biological clock gives men a lot of power in this regard.
Most women want to experience motherhood. Waiting for a decent partner / equal partner would mean most women’s clock running out while searching.
Also misogynist conditioning reinforces to women that is just “how men are” so they accept it till it becomes too much to bear.

That's true but the trick is not to "wait for a decent partner / equal partner". You may get one, you probably won't. Hope for the best, plan for the worst.

A lot of women convince themselves that its about finding "the one" who is house-trained and solvent and loves them and all the rest of it. And that once they've found one and married one, their job is done and they can sit back and enjoy motherhood secure in the knowledge they will be provided for.

In reality there is simply no way of knowing if a man is actually up to the job until he takes the job. However well presented he is, however good a job he does of cleaning up after himself before kids come along.

There is only one real solution to this, and that is to provide for yourself and make sure you can always provide for yourself alone. And then if Mr Domestic who is also well-endowed and has a great job and makes sparkling conversation comes along its all upside but if he doesn't, or if he presents as one but turns out to be a bit of a turd, it's a bummer but its not game over.

The trouble is a lot of women don't really want to be financially self-sufficient. They don't really want to work hard or they tell themselves it's not good for their kids. They convince themselves that its all about reading the runes and finding the right man and then they get married and then spend about 30 years of their lives crossing their fingers.

You can't rely on them to be good enough. A few are but most aren't, so don't be surprised when they're not. And look after yourself.

What i find interesting is that men /public health campaigns have largely failed to share - up until recently - is that there are also potential risks to the baby from older sperm.

No-one wants to tell these older men that they should have kids earlier - it’s always been out about controlling women’s fertility and choices.

When we first got together I used to enjoy choosing gifts together for his family. It was the first thing I dropped. Dh now outsources it to one of his sisters. Although I try to team up with my sister and do the same for my parents! Given up now and get them theatre tickets and a box of chocolates every year.

Same here on the mental load front. The whole 'buying gifts for his family' bit...why? Why do women even start that? I've been married 27 years and never wrote cards or remembered his family's birthdays. I have a job remembering my own family's dates, never mind having to remember the people he grew up with. He's never expected that from me.

But now women also have to provide by necessity so men are also expected fo step up and nurture and those who can’t or won’t will find themselves left behind.

Are boys being taught these things. Probably not.

My boy is......

And my friends are teaching their boys too.

What a Charmer, is he single!

My DH used to be better at domestic stuff but he is crap now. He's never really done cleaning, I was on maternity then we had a cleaner, now it's all left to me. I can dish out jobs and he'll do them but he won't think to himself.

He actually asked me earlier if part baked bread can go in the airfryer and how long for when he had the packet in hand he could have looked at. It pisses me off TBH.

I am becoming less tolerant as I get older, perhaps because the kids are older now so it's not all hands on deck in that way. I also work full time (more than full time hrs) so it definitely should be more equal.

My husband is 55. He's just been steam cleaning the carpets. I have to say when I first met him at 30 he couldn't work a washing machine. Are boys being taught these things. Probably not.

Another thing aswell, is that it's fun for men to have power and be selfish, so why would men give it up?

I was talking to a male colleague once about how hard it was for women.

He said to me

'yeah it's great for men. Why would we give up the power. It's fun to keep people down and have more things for yourself. Men enjoy it. It means that there is more for me. '

Then he said to me "would you give up that bit of power if it was the other way around. Of course you wouldn't. You would enjoy women having the power and men being second class citizens. Why would you be motivated to change that'

That said a lot to me.

Some women are too though to be fair. I think if we’re talking those men who don’t do any housework at all, and expect their female partner to do it all instead then I do think it’s sometimes it’s that they’ve managed to find pushover, especially if both work full time. At worst it’s just misogyny, maybe they grew up in a household where the women did all of the domestic stuff and expect that of a partner. It’s also laziness and societal norms unfortunately that create this imbalance. Women are less likely to want to put up with an unclean, untidy house than men are it would appear.