To feel that many men are totally unprepared and unsuited to domesticity?

@PerambulationFrustration

Women may not be interested in housework but I feel they are more interested in creating a nice home (not all and I speak from my own experience only)
In my family and extended family, I see the women want to buy things for the home that men couldn't care less about.

The men sure as hell notice and complain if the women stop caring about the home though. They just expect it all to happen by magic and without their involvement.

Women may not be interested in housework but I feel they are more interested in creating a nice home (not all and I speak from my own experience only)
In my family and extended family, I see the women want to buy things for the home that men couldn't care less about.
Doing more housework falls into that.
Maybe it's a fallout from not wanting to be judged as a slack homemaker or something. I don't know but I genuinely enjoy adding those touches that I think make a place nice. Dh thinks the stuff is just in the way of more efficiency and functionality especially when he has to clean around it.

This is true, it is about practice and lack of practice. DH and I have split chores so he always does the bathrooms and I do the vacuuming. So I haven’t cleaned a bathroom in years. I used to clean my own bathroom every week years ago but these days cannot get motivated to clean a bathroom because I don’t do it anymore.

I'm sorry that the men you have experienced in life have left you with such a bitter and distorted view.

Your views are pretty extreme and do not reflect that reality of my life and the men in it. I do not feel that I have been lucky. I feel that you have been unlucky.

Your views are pure misandry.

The type of men you are meeting is very different from those I know - my DH, DF, male family members and friends.

All great fathers and parents. Married for many years and fully parent their children.

This is veering close to victim blaming.

Women living and supporting each other isn’t going to make men treat women better, it just lets men off the hook.

Yes I know lots of women in their forties who got pregnant!

Yes I know many people that got pregnant in their forties. Women are having children later in life due to many things. They want to have a life and career first.

Some examples. My friend just had her second baby at 42.

My cousin is in her mid forties. She is pregnant with her third child. She had her first child at 38.
My colleague last year , aged 44 was pregnant.

I have another cousin who got pregnant at 41.

And I can think of more. They are just some examples. I know that my two cousins definitely didnt use donor eggs. They got pregnant naturally. We are close, and they would have told me. They told me a lot about their pregnancies.

My own mum was 38 when she had me.

I fell pregnant naturally on our second try at 44 and face birth to a healthy baby girl 2.5 months ago. Has my first at 40 on our first try.

Many many? That seems unusual. Most people I know didn't even try in their forties - they all had their kids in their thirties.

It really isn't common for people to get pregnant naturally over age 43, so if you know lots and lots, the majority of them probably used donor eggs. Which obviously they wouldn't talk about, given that the child should be the first person to know about that, when old enough.

That's what we are told.

But I know many many women who have got pregnant in their early and mid forties.

It's not a lie. Unfortunately those women are very much exceptions to the rule. Most IVF clinics won't try own-egg IVF after age 43 because the chances are just too low to take their money. For the vast majority of women, their fertility is over at 43 and for very many, a few years before that. And you have no idea where you'll fall on the egg spectrum, that's the problem. Bear in mind that some of the people you know having babies well into their forties may be using donor eggs and not saying.

Agree. It’s conforming women who enable this kind of behaviour. When we got together (40+ years and counting) we had an adult discussion around the starting of a family (a consensual no thank you) and as we both had good high paid careers we loved, we share most of the household chores, the cooking, the cleaning, and because I love gardening, and he loves cars, this is just about the only area where there is not full sharing, but we help each other out. My OH comes from a background of spic and span tidiness, I come from a world of creativity, and we meet happily in the middle. The only thing I don’t do, is iron, except on very special occasions. OH likes his T shirts super smooth, so he irons them (and usually something for me🤣)

I think it’s the raising of children that can make or break a lot of marriages/relationships. I don’t think many men, and not even enough women give any sort of real deep thought into what really really is required in raising a child successfully, and maintaining a loving shared partnership. I knew I put my OH before any child I would want, so quite happy not to have any, and not once have either of us regretted it.

Indeed. I read a book by Anita Moorjani , an Indian woman, recently.

She said that she grew up seeing both her parents work full time. But she also saw her mother doing every single chore in the house. Her father did none.

She said that she questioned her father on why her mother did everything. Her father told her "if you ask questions like that, you'll never get a good husband. They will say you're unmarriageable."

Women are not genetically better at chores than men.

It suits some men to gave a servant wife. To do everything for them

Neither me nor my DH are 'interested' in house work - is anyone?! It's super boring and annoying. But still sadly needs to be done to a minimum standard for hygiene and comfort.

Almost no one is "interested" in housework, with the exception being those daft influencers who make money out of it or people with OCD. No one is particularly good or bad at it either: it's not like playing concert-level piano or building a nuclear rocket. It's a menial task.

Women tend to be better at it because they've had more practice. Simple as that. Men can get good if they do the same. Ain't no biology to this.

More women are definitely seeing that they don't have to get married or have children.

We can have our own lives by ourselves If we want.

I'm 40 not married and happy. My mum was married, she told me that after she got divorced, she was the happiest that she ever was.

How are women genetically at hoovering exactly? They are different, particularly when it comes to childbirth and raising children. But it's absolute bollocks that this difference means men can't do household chores.

I don't think we realise just how recent women's rights were won. My grandmother couldn't buy get a mortgage on her own or get a credit card card. She never worked. My mother wasn't allowed to go to university as her parents said it was a waste of time because she'd just become a mother.

To gain independence many women worked AND did the household chores because that's the only way they could do it. Men (even young ones) still witness their mums do this.

It'll take time but we need to raise our sons to be better and our daughters to not put up with any shit.

I don't think you have quite nailed it here. The differences between men and women and how we view the roles of both genders come from eons ago and the collective survival instinct (of tribes/civilisations).

If you think about what it takes to build and maintain a population, you have to appreciate the difference between the reproducing capabilities of men and women. Men can theoretically father thousands of children in their lives, and the men historically who went out and conquered civilisations and paved their way across the world did just that. We are descended genetically from about twice as many women as men, those men being the ones who were strong and intelligent enough to conquer and defeat, they got the full pick of the women. Men who achieved little in their lives failed to attract women and became genetic dead ends. Women take nine months to carry a child and are reproductive for only about 35 years, hence they tend to have single digit numbers of children, and it is very rare for a woman to have 10 or more children in her life. What this means is if a civilisation loses most of its people in a bloody war, you only need a few penises to rebuild it but you need as many wombs as possible. This means that men's lives are less important than women's lives and so for optimal population growth and maintenance, you keep the women at home nurturing the children and send the men out to do the dangerous jobs and fight on the front line in wars, they are expendable. This is why the "women and children first" thing existed on sinking ships, because women are seen as more valuable than men.

This article goes into more detail and is an interesting read:

https://medium.com/cregox/is-there-anything-good-about-men-by-roy-f-baumeister-d111ba407de3

Yes men won't give up the power. Why would they really.
Women also keep other women down by being cruel to each other. That keeps women as a whole weak.
To make change, women need to value women more.

I read a really good spiritual book recently. The woman author wrote that "what will really make change in the future is when women love and support each other more. That will make women stronger as a whole"

Visualisation is also important.

Let's all visualise a society where women are treated equally to men. Where women are respected. What does it look like in your mind?

I think a lot of men are perfectly able to carry out domestic chores, basically having no choice from living on their own. But as soon as they move in with a partner or get married,they suddenly lose the ability. Once they know that there's someone else there to do them,they become helpless.

I think it's mainly because a woman is expected to be a man's PA. She gets the blame if contact isn't kept up or important dates are missed.

This isn't the case in my family or what I witness with my social group.