To feel that many men are totally unprepared and unsuited to domesticity?

It’s poor parenting that men aren’t raised to expect to do housework and childcare nothing to do with genetics.
Unfortunately from reading different Mn threads some families are continuing with this inequality.

And what would you do if he left you, or if one day you wanted to leave him?

I put it to you that it is unwise to put all your eggs in one basket.

As evidenced by numerous threads on here every day.

That's a really excellent point. Its not affordable to live alone so many are rushing to choose inappropriate partners to live with.

It's a complete generalisation but men are often raised (and potentially have a genetic code) to put themselves first so they will often view things important to them above things that benefit the household or their wife/kids. Some men struggle with empathy so do not relate to their partner being ill/in pain and struggle to care above their own needs. Women are often raised to care for others and put others needs above their own (I remember reading somewhere that teaching staff are significantly more likely to make girls apologise/show remorse for their actions than they are boys) and most women have a nurturing gene as part of the preservation of life.

People will say not all men and yes that's true , upbringing and whether they have lived independently will factor but I would say those men (inthe uk at least) are the exception not the rule. Ditto women.

Society use to work with this to some extent with women in caregiver role and men the provider. But nowadays women are expected to/want to/have to provide too but more often than not find themselves in the position of doing everything- the job, bulk of housework, childcare, mental load. And why ? Because they care more and put their needs below others.

My friends DH is like this, he does fuck all about the house (although is a great Dad and provider). She grew up as the oldest sibling and had to wear the mother hat from a young age, learning typical mothering/domestic skills too early on. I think as a coping strategy she perfected these skills to navigate some sadness in childhood. It's carried through to her adult life, and she is always put upon for all the chores as well as having a demanding job, which she keeps on accepting more and more responsibility at.

My point being, many women will react the same because of this type of childhood. Or perhaps they will take on men as a project to fix them. Perhaps they learnt to be people pleasers, perhaps they can't say no etc... unfortunately all these different types of "scarred" women tend to fall for these more helpless baby bird men. 🐦

I have no interest in housework or cooing over babies and am definitely a woman. Dh doesn't either. We pay a cleaner and get on with the stuff that needs doing because that's life isn't it?

Exactly - it’s down to their upbringing. Too many parents treat sons differently and then wonder why he is useless.

Well if you say it, it must be true.

It helps so much to have good role models. My df was great, my gf was great. Dh had a lot to live up to.

Living in shared houses in university was an eye opener too. But I think my childhood models inoculated me; I didn’t think someone who couldn’t look after themselves was adorable (some women are drawn to that), it was a turn off to me.

Nowadays the housing crisis has meant too many people live at home without going through that fending for yourself phase that’s so important.

My dm taught us to give careful consideration to whether a man was husband material or a fling, and not to confuse the two.
In her day sexual abstinence was more important because the consequences for falling pregnant could be devastating, not least if you ended up locked into marriage with a bad one.
She highly approved of our generation living together first, and made it clear we were always welcome home, and warned us to be aware that it wasn’t foolproof because men change after marriage. The fact that many couples can’t afford single accomodation is locking them into relationships like previous generations got locked into marriage.

I’m married to a man who has a career and is perfectly capable and willing to do anything to do with the house and family. (his mother brought him up properly). He can cook, shop, laundry etc. He does them because he’s an adult and a part of a family.

We have made sure that DD and DS can also function as adults.
This is not unusual.

Mothers doing everything fir them is the problem. Fortunately my MIL didn't and raised a fully functioning adult.

There's no physical reason why men can't do housework – but they're generally not that interested in it, and if given the opportunity, will happily swerve it.

This recent insistence that men and women are the same is deeply misguided. Just because you want something to be so, doesn't mean it is. Just look at the real world. Who tends to be driving the car on a Sunday? Who tends to have Pinterest boards of home decor? Who tends to be putting up shelves? Who tends to be cooing over the new baby?

Except the fact that it's well researched that men as a class do far far less around the home than women as a class. Anecdotal evidence from a pp's son doesn't change that fact. The question is why and why women put up with it.

That pretty much classes every comment on every thread as pointless.

My DH was raised in a truly misogynistic household (FIL constantly saying things like “That’s women’s work”, and MIL asking publicly why I didn’t iron DH’s shirts (despite me owning my own house which DH moved into as he was still living at home & me working full time). So much work has to be done to counteract these archaic views.

I’ve had to work so hard with DH to get to a point where he pulls his weight and he often apologises for how shit he’s been. I just kept repeating “I do not have a manual or any qualifications that make me more capable of doing X, Y or Z”.

As a society, we have a long way to go.

It's all related though. Kids need a good role model where possible from mum and dad. If they don't grow up with a male role model, how will they learn many skills to fit in to the real world to be a domestic god and not be completely useless?

No need for starting a new thread. My points are very relevant to the OP.

Well as true as what any poster on here says I guess.

Well if ds in uni says it, it must be true.

I’m pretty sure everyone in history didn’t think it’s genetic given how recent mankind’s understanding of genetics is!

But in terms of gendered roles, yes, traditionally women have been expected to be homemakers and I agree with PP that females are biologically motivated to invest time and effort in offspring while men males are more motivated to seek status and ‘win’ females. You see it in nature all of the time (but not all, since males of some species play a far more active role in child rearing etc).

Humans are massively sophisticated and resourceful and I’m certain that both men and women can successfully turn their hands to whatever they like, it’s mainly about motivation as well as learning what they can get away with.

I hate housework but will do it to create a safe and nurturing home for my family; I’m particularly good at it when we have people coming over since that also affects my social reputation.

DH will do all housework etc if I have other things on and he doesn’t, and vice versa. He is far more efficient than I am but I have a better eye for detail, when I get around to it. Neither of us is better than the other in all ways.

But - we have the bad habit of making few demands on our kids, who are pretty slovenly in their rooms and need constant reminding to tidy up after themselves. It’s usually easier to do it ourselves and we’ve been doing this without a second thought.

This thread has made me realise I need to rechannel my energy into getting them to do it themselves instead of DH and me doing it, so we don’t produce these lazy males (or females!) that are the topic of this thread. Wish me luck! :-)

edited for typos

DS is at university living in halls and says the girls are the most messy and never clean the communal spaces.

That's not the thread though. Maybe start a thread if you're interested in that subject.

You could ask why women keep on having children to different men, where children don't know who Dad is . 🤔

Both men and women have a part in this.

Being able to feed yourself and keep your living environment clean is a basic skill I expect every adult to master - regardless of their job.

He wouldn't have the quality of life he does now. The fact you see a man who provides for his family as useless is completely bizzare to me.

Luckily, I didn't say that. Try reading my responses again. You are fixated on the porn issue, which is indeed a massive problem. But I said

No, men can easily learn domestic chores, they just don't fancy it. Women have always worked for pay, often shitty pay so if their husbands spent all the family money whoring or on drugs or drink etc they could feed their kids, so it has nothing at all to do with a change in roles.

The bottom line is the internet. It's fucked up generations of men. Men were always much more violent and unpredictable than women...

There's a ton of information out there about how bad the internet is for kids, teenagers, adults, how horribly bad what passes for porn nowadays is. The world, from porn to entertainment is far different, and far worse, especially in the last ten to fftteen years.

Men, as a sex, are dangerous, lazy and selfish and women, as a sex, keep trying to make progress and keep being beaten and raped and tortured back into the cages men make for us.

At no point ever have I said it is an acceptable excuse, simply the reality. And I said the internet, not just porn.

You're not responding to anything I said, but to a discussion you have imagined, so no point in continuing.