Was my Christmas Day "abstemious"?

Could do I suppose but I doubt most people wouild think of alcohol so early. I have known people to have a buck's fizz at breakfast and there's nothing wrong with that if they want it but each to their own. There are no rules written in tablets of stone.

Coffee at 11am would suit me fine.

It's sad that some think copious amounts of alcohol is essential to having a good time and hosts considered mean if they don't provide it.

The op's Christmas fare was far from abstemious in my view, it was normal for a family and sounded lovely. She can invite me next year :-).

Surely stuff like Buck’s Fizz or the OP’s M&S Sloe Gin Fizz is made for serving on Christmas Day at 11am!

What? Tea or coffee is entirely appropriate at 11am. Why on earth is Coke or orange juice a more generous provision? Weird.

Under 8 units over the course of 12 hours, so everyone would have been legal to drive by the end of the night.

Working out units it's 4u/bottle sloe gin fizz x2, 9u/bottle champagne x 2, 10u/bottle red wine x2, + 1u each for the snowball so 9u. Assuming the under 18s just had 3 units each and over 70s 5 units each that leaves 39 units between them for the other 5 which is a fair amount but if the children and oldies were drinking more it's less.

Yours sounds wilder than mine! DH and I both don't really drink, but shared a half bottle of rose wine over lunch, and that was it!!

Being surrounded by people getting trollied off shots doesn't tickle my fancy at all, but everyone has their own way of doing Christmas!

a) The clue is in the name "Politics and the English Language"
Orwell is specifically writing about the importance in clear language in politics. He was criticising the way people used overly stylistic language within political rhetoric to whitewash atrocities, or to obfuscate around complex issues to encourage people to vote for policies not in their best interests.

He was a professional writer, he wasn't advocating only using simplistic prose in all areas of life, ffs! If you read any of his published works, fiction or essays, that is obvious!

Which is exactly what I said, "there is a time and a place for straightforward language."

If said "ungrateful bitch," as the girlfriend on here has been described, was trying to get her bottom set year 9's to pass their GCSE's then, yes, maybe 'abstemious' might not have been the best word.

However suggesting she shouldn't use such language in a private conversation with her own partner in her own home, is more analogous to what Orwell expresses (and, indeed, criticises via Newspeak) in 1984!

b) if you'd actually read 'Politics and the English Language", you'd realise that 'abstemious' would fit in perfectly with the words Orwell himself considers straightforward enough to be easily understood. Even if you just look at the extracts on the wikipedia page you've linked to, he's not following his own "rules" (which he fully admitted), it's not written in basic, one syllable prose.

Just from the introduction "Our civilization is decadent and our language — so the argument runs — must inevitably share in the general collapse. It follows that any struggle against the abuse of language is a sentimental archaism .... an effect can become a cause, reinforcing the original cause and producing the same effect in an intensified form, and so on indefinitely. .....to think clearly is a necessary first step toward political regeneration: so that the fight against bad English is not frivolous." Its not exactly Biff and Chip, is it?

Same with any of his other works. I've picked a random paragraph from Animal Farm (part of the narrative, rather than, for example, Major's speeches which are written to illustrate the point made in 'politics and the english language' about political rhetoric).

"Presently the tumult died down. The four pigs waited, trembling, with guilt written on every line of their countenances. Napoleon now called upon them to confess their crimes. They were the same four pigs as had protested when Napoleon abolished the Sunday Meetings. Without any further prompting they confessed that they had been secretly in touch with Snowball ever since his expulsion, that they had collaborated with him in destroying the windmill, and that they had entered into an agreement with him to hand over Animal Farm...."

You could (and, according to you, should) replace any of the words in bold with more simplistic language but you'd lose the impact of the wording and end up with a lesser novel.

Maybe fully read and understand essays if you want to use them to prove your point, rather than just linking to the wikipedia page?

I cannot believe anyone whose whole family uses the word abstemious would really write a thread and be needing reassure and feedback on their actions. People who like to use beautiful unusual language are usually extremely secure and self possessed enough not to consider their way isn’t anyone else’s.

😂

I love language but I don’t mix in circles that would routinely use the word abstemious. In fact I have never come across it before .

I cannot believe anyone whose whole family uses the word abstemious would really write a thread and be needing reassure and feedback on their actions. People who like to use beautiful unusual language are usually extremely secure and self possessed enough not to consider their way isn’t anyone else’s.

I believe it is a beautifully written post to stimulate all the responses it got.

“A more Spartan celebration than I’m used to,” might work at a push. Abstemious implies a deliberate choice to not over-indulge rather than being moderate or miserly. (“Parsimonious and clunch-fisted” just for @ChessorBuckaroo )

Nope, changed my mind as I was typing. Spartan would apply to the decor as much as anything and I am sure it was a lovely Christmassy home.

”More Methodist in style”? That implies an aversion to supplying booze.

No, I’m still coming back to “abstemious” as the right word for the situation.

One of the reasons to be grateful I was born into an English speaking family is the ridiculously large vocabulary the English language has, thanks to its strange and mongrel history. There is always a word for exactly that nuance you want, if you care to look for it. And none of the hard work of learning it as an additional language.

That’s enjoying and using our rich linguistic heritage, and having fun with it. Pretending we don’t know the right word exists isn’t “good communication,” Chessor. It’s hobbling oneself on purpose.

Self-restrained would make me think it was more a comment on the conversation, lack of games etc.

I think overall it's a choice of 'abstemious' or a long phrase saying 'less drink than I'm used to' etc.

She would have hated ours. We are both cutting down on alcohol. It was just the two of us, so we had a lovely meal and just one bottle of lowish alcohol white wine between us. Nothing else and it was fine. Usually I admit, I used to drink too much, but hopefully I have stopped now.

your dinner sounds lovely.

Moderate is a good call but it doesn’t embrace the element of holding back that abstemious does. Thank you for the suggestion, though. Self restrained is my best thesaurus synonym.

@blossomtoes 'moderate', maybe? I had to use a thesaurus though, it didn't exactly spring to mind.

Not sure if that is suitably common to pass Chessor's approval.

Can you think of one? I really hope so because it’s driving me crazy!

I've asked Chessor a couple of times for her 'simple' alternative but am yet to get a response.

@ChessorBuckaroo Uncommon terms shouldn't be used in public service announcements, government forms - the kind of things where a wide amount of the general public need to understand them.

In everyday speech people just use the appropriate words that they know, and think the other person probably knows. It's tedious trying to guess what other words someone might know. I used the word 'premise' the other day, my DB didn't know it. To me, incredibly common. Clearly not to him.

the best use of the language.

The best use of language is using the appropriate word. In this case abstemious fits the bill perfectly. Clearly I have too little to think about because I’ve been wracking my brain to think of an alternative and I can’t come up with one.

That works out at about 4/5 units of alcohol over the course of 12 hours. This is absolutely fine, just as it’s absolutely fine to drink no alcohol. But I know of many households where consumption would be significantly higher.

I’d certainly have offered guests the option of gin fizz or champagne on arrival and I’d have actively encouraged them to help themselves to food and drinks throughout the day. (It sounds as if you had a high degree of control over their consumption.)

But we all do things differently and I think that’s all your brother’s girlfriend’s comment indicated- that your Christmas celebrations were less boozy and also perhaps less gluttonous those she was used to. It was an observation, not a judgement.

But this is a thread specifically about three people who all understand an uncommon word using that word to communicate between them with precision. How can that possibly be a bad thing?

There are exceptions (such as your last paragraph, or in academia as I said or in an interview where you are sure the interviewer will grasp what you are saying), generally though, everyday speech should use common words.

And using words that most people understand isn't "dumbing down" as another poster said, it's good communication, and the best use of the language.

They did communicate clearly though, as the girlfriend, DB, OP - none of them had to google the term. All understood what was meant.

What word would you have used instead?

It would be a poor use of language for the girlfriend to use it in a KS1 class (although even there there's a place for sometimes modelling use of passive vocabulary and widening vocabulary with more nuance). It would be a poor use of language to use it in a casual conversation at the bus stop or in the hairdresser where there's a highish probability that it will be misunderstood.

Would I use it to (proudly) describe my New Year to my workmates? Probably not.

Would I use it in conversation with my DH or DF who I'm completely confident understand it? Yep. How could that possibly be inappropriate?

Orwell was saying exactly the opposite to you. He decried “slovenly language”, you’re advocating it.

All I read is alcohol, alcohol, alcohol.

The quality of the conversation is more important to me. The right people can have fun anywhere.