Husband’s white lie but knows I can’t hack lying

I'm not gonna lie to you, you need to take a step back and realise you are being overbearing in your relationship. Checking an email to see if DH had bought a birthday card when it hadn't even got to your birthday?! I would apologise to DH. Tidy.

Also sometimes it might be helpful to think of alternative responses.

• He said: oh your card hasn’t arrived.

• You said: did you not just order it with my Christmas card like he usually does

Alternatively, you could have said:

• A: Honestly it’s not a big deal, I’m in my late 20s and don’t want a card as it’s a non-significant birthday.

• B: Oh, that’s a shame

• C: I’d like a card, I don’t mind if it’s late

• D: I’m not happy about that but there’s problems with post this time of year, maybe pop to the shops?

• E: That’s odd because the post seems fine, but I don’t want a card regardless so it’s fine.

etc

Like it doesn’t need to jump straight into suspicion, scepticism etc. Sometimes step back and look at the bigger picture.

@MrsTerryPratchett

Your post really struck a chord with me.

My mum died earlier this year. She wasn't a good mum to me or my siblings. She was selfish, self centred and verbally and physically abusive.

In adult life I was the only one who maintained a relationship with her, not through love or even liking but from fear, obligation and guilt. For the last few years she was frail and needy and a tremendous burden on me. Caring for her and now, sorting out her affairs and her estate, have been a drain on my time and energy for a long time now.

Did I ever tell her any of this? Of course I didn't. By then she was a sad, needy, lonely old lady. When she thanked me for doing things (not often!!) or said she hoped it wasn't an inconvenience I lied through my teeth and said it wasn't a problem, it was no trouble, that it was a pleasure, that I really didn't mind doing it. All massive, stonking, great untruths but to me, making an old lady's last years easier and easing her guilt were more important than telling the truth.

This is a really good post OP from someone who has been in your position.

OP, I get it, I don't really understand lying. However, I am aware that I'm in an unusual position. I assess why the person lied and if they're dealing with anxiety. If he truly is sorry about it and with the understanding no one is perfect, I'd move forwards (with the clear rule now no white lies either).

im the same I have been habitually lied to and now have some kind of trauma response everytime I'm told a lie.
however, in this situation it sounds like you really pressed him and he just said a little white lie whilst he got your card in check. He didn't want to look careless or upset you/ make your birthday seem insignificant. Sounds like he wanted to reassure you a card was coming and in the process told a little white lie. You need to drop it.

Why would I rather have a therapist that lies to me?

So a therapist should lie?, sounds healthy

Thank you, it was.

He ended up trying to do the same with the DC, it was like an obsession in the end.

Hypocritical since he told lies of his own, just as I suspect the OP does because it's human nature to tell white lies.

So you'd rather have a therapist that lies to you?

He shouldn’t have lied if he knows you can’t stand it.

But it’s happened. So now you need to ask yourself whether you’d rather lose him over it or get over it yourself and move on. Getting angry or upset helps no one.

To be honest I do see both sides to this.

Telling someone you forgot to get them
a card for their birthday is awkward. Personally I don’t ask people “where’s my card?” because it puts unnecessary pressure, they either get me one or they don’t. I’m not going to beg and if they don’t get me one, I know where I stand.

Yes, he forgot your card - you clocked it immediately, but you say it’s not a big deal so why question it? I wouldn’t have pushed the point, he may have thought you came across as confrontational and panicked and dug a hole for himself. I completely understand that you don’t like lies but I do think you pushed him in a corner a bit. I think sometimes you need to pick your battles. He completely lied to you, you have confirmation of that, it’s your choice how you respond and if this is the end of the relationship. I’m not saying you need to accept this.

but what I will say is be careful about having super high (to the extent of unrealistic) expectations of others, and fighting every battle to get justice. People lie unfortunately, it can be human nature. I don’t think realistically you’re going to find a partner that will never lie. I think it’s important to find a partner that you can communicate well with, sometimes it might involve not sweating the small things for the sake of not wasting your own energy on pointless battles.

I’m with you OP. I hate liars and I very very rarely lie myself but it seems that is unusual. I’ve had two different therapists tell me that everyone lies all the time and it isn’t a big deal but I disagree.

Agreed. I've got a headache just reading this, and OP digging her heels in. Can't imagine what it must be like to live with.

OP you have a responsibility to deal with your drama, and issues. I suggest you do so.

Demanding absolute 100% honesty 100% of the time is an incredibly high bar and one no one could possibly reach. By requiring this you are guaranteeing your husband and your relationship will fail. Is that, deep down, what you actually want? So you can leave him and blame him?

When someone says they don't ever lie they are either lying or deluded. Everyone lies, some occasionally others more frequently. Only someone completely lacking any emotional intelligence, empathy or manners could tell the raw truth all the time and even that hugely dysfunctional person would lie if it was convenient to them.

There is a massive difference between minor lies told to spare peoples feelings or to keep the peace or maintain cordial social relations and the sort of manipulative and coercive gaslighting you have experienced in the past.

That you can't see that difference yet is your issue not his and something you need to work through with your psychiatrist.

I’m very happy that he’s now your ex. That must have been an excruciating way to live.

And i can understand that feeling about not wanting to drive. But the equivalent here is making your husband promise to never get in a car again because of your experiences. And that wouldn't be right, or practical. Everybody tells white lies, for various reasons. Some of them are to spare others feelings or make them feel better. It can be a positive thing. If you have kids are you never going to tell them about Santa or the Tooth Fairy? Your mind is fixed on negatives of lies to the exclusion of everything else. You need to discuss this with your therapist

I used to be the same as you, having also grown up with a compulsive liar. I used to warn people that they needed to be honest with me because I had a pathological response to lies. No matter how brutal, I'd rather have the truth. I don't think they believed me, and I reacted in ways I'm not going to share on here. In each case THEY apologised to me afterwards.

I'm that bit older now, and I have those instances to keep me in check, remind me that people are capable of almost anything when they react from the gut rather than thinking it through first. Instead of spiralling, or sticking around gathering 'evidence' of their dishonesty, doing things that make me feel just as bad in the process, I have now learnt to walk away. In one case I've even managed to maintain a relationship with a dishonest SIL. I'll never trust or truly respect her again, but as far as she's concerned I've let it go. It took me a long time to get here. Not quite so simple when you're married, but somehow you need to find a way to let this go, for your own sake as much as anyone else's.

I have, on this basis, found myself unable to assign you as un / reasonable. You know that your reaction to dishonesty has been distorted, and you know that one day it could ruin what might be an otherwise lovely surprise, so do whatever you can to not deprive yourself of that and put things in perspective. Maybe you can both take something from the situation.

I totally understand OP. I trust my partner completely because we are always completely honest. It’s black and white to me, he is someone whose word I can rely on without thinking about it. If something happened to shake that perception, I would have an awful lot to think about, no matter how trivial the lie. My parents marriage was plagued with dishonesty, I couldn’t live with the doubt and second guessing.

A white lie is saying you look nice even when you look like shit. This is a fully intentional misrepresentation of a situation he doubled down on. Maybe you should have couples therapy to see if the situation can be resolved with mediation.

I feel for you OP, I can imagine this must be very distressing for you to make him show you his emails. You must know that is absolutely not normal and very controlling, at best.

I think you need to continue to do the work with a therapist, to be able to sit with your past trauma and get to a better place. You will without doubt push him away if you put everything he says under a microscope. While it's understandable that a minor lie to protect feelings is triggering for you, it's entirely inconsequential to most people. You seem to be trying to protect yourself by trying to eliminate any and all lies from the people you love, which just isn't possible.

I'm sure my partner has told me white lies to protect my feelings, it's a normal defence reflex and he's not infallible. Neither am I!

You have said numerous times you have a very open and honest relationship, so I don't think you're being fair to him here at all and I feel sorry for him.

You're seriously in danger of letting your past relationships ruin this one, I hope you can have a chat and enjoy your birthday.

My ex husband used to hover over me while I nervously had to prove I wasn't lying.

She required he show her email confirmation to verify whether or not he’d ordered her a card from funkypigeon. If you’re genuinely not seeing how unacceptable that sort of behaviour is then there’s nothing anyone here can say to clarify it for you.

Maybe she does have a constant need to test what he's said, her response certainly didn't sound like she believed him yet it wasn't something most would question. God forbid he had a massive surprise lined up and didn't want to ruin it.

The card wasnt a big deal.
the lying is a big deal.

Seriously, that wasnt difficult to understand!