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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask why women would be uncomfortable with unisex bathrooms

388 replies

Chumssss · 28/12/2024 21:58

Discussion with my DH tonight about this. Am I right in thinking that unisex bathrooms are not great?

OP posts:
HolyPeaches · 28/12/2024 23:39

In a previous job we had unisex toilets in the office. I walked in one morning to find a guy (no idea who he was) having a wee in a cubicle with the door wide open.

Another time, I walked in one of the cubicles to fine a shit in the middle of the floor. Obviously no idea if it was a man or woman who did it but still it was gross.

StripyHorse · 28/12/2024 23:38

StripyHorse · 28/12/2024 23:33

Local theatre is being refurbished.

Currently the toilets are mixed sex, with floor to ceiling cubicles, all containing a sink, mirror and sanitary bin. Some of the toilets are more accessible. There are doors on both sides of a central corridor. Outside the toilets (so you could see the communal area if you turned to face it) are some benches.

They don't feel unsafe at all.
The queues are shorter than the ladies' queue used to be.
It is easier for parents to take children of the opposite sex to the toilets.
It is easier for people with caring responsilities (e.g. elderly parents) to assist them to the toilet area.
Baby change facilities are equally accessible by both parents.

In short - I really hope they remain like this.

And one more point...

  • the sink in the cubicle means privacy for cleaning moon cups etc/ washing hands with menstrual blood on. I don't want to do this in front of anyone, male or female.
endofthelinefinally · 28/12/2024 23:36

"Why can't we have female bathrooms?"

Because that would mean saying no to a certain type of man and they don't like that.

Scirocco · 28/12/2024 23:36

Hygiene, safety, privacy.

JockTamsonsBairns · 28/12/2024 23:35

I'm trying to figure out where I stand on this, simply because I've never encountered an issue with a man in a female/unisex toilet before.
I'm probably quite naive on this - but, I live very rurally, so it's just not been on my radar.

It sounds like the unisex toilets described on here are full of disgusting men with filthy habits, who urinate all over the floor and toilet seat? Like undomesticated animals?
That sounds utterly vile.

However, there's a distinct lack of threads on MN from women who say their men are equally this vile at home?
Are these men perfectly sanitary at home, but displaying disgusting standards in the workplace?

I work in an office building with unisex toilets, and I haven't encountered any issues at all.
But, maybe I've just been sheltered from what others are seeing?

Livelovebehappy · 28/12/2024 23:35

Just wouldn’t feel safe in a toilet area with men I’m afraid. Too much of an opportunity for a man to attack a woman. It’s generally a confined space, where you’re in a state of undress, and I just couldn’t imagine how that would feel sitting in a cubicle with your knickers down at your ankles, with an unknown man in the next cubicle just a couple of feet away in a similar state of undress.

NameChanges123 · 28/12/2024 23:34

Lots of men are filthy perverts/predators, who also don't care if they piss all over the floor/toilet seat.

I'd rather they were contained in their own allocated space.

fairfat40 · 28/12/2024 23:34

derbiee · 28/12/2024 22:07

Female toilets are gross i can't imagine men's being any worse

If they have cubicles not sure why the panic

Oh, sweet summer child …

On a more mundane level it’s the frequent stuff, the piss on the seat and shit on the back of the seat too.

On a more serious level it’s the sexually violent behaviour of some deviants - the semen wiped on loo paper and rolled back, the spy cameras etc. Behaviour that’s rare? I’d hope so, but just Google spy cameras in toilets and you’ll get the gist of the ones they do catch. How many don’t they catch? Look at the Pelicot trial. I refer you also to the Malteaser analogy. If one in 10 was a piece of rolled up shit, would you trust them?

Maddy70 · 28/12/2024 23:33

I really don't mind. It's very common in my country

StripyHorse · 28/12/2024 23:33

Local theatre is being refurbished.

Currently the toilets are mixed sex, with floor to ceiling cubicles, all containing a sink, mirror and sanitary bin. Some of the toilets are more accessible. There are doors on both sides of a central corridor. Outside the toilets (so you could see the communal area if you turned to face it) are some benches.

They don't feel unsafe at all.
The queues are shorter than the ladies' queue used to be.
It is easier for parents to take children of the opposite sex to the toilets.
It is easier for people with caring responsilities (e.g. elderly parents) to assist them to the toilet area.
Baby change facilities are equally accessible by both parents.

In short - I really hope they remain like this.

Keeptoiletssafe · 28/12/2024 23:33

@Sux2buthen @Ponderingwindow @JarvisIsland @SwanRivers @Cherrypickled @GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing @PerditaLaChien @WinterBones @curtaintwitcher78 @RamblingEclectic @Newhi @WigglyVonWaggly

and to all those who haven’t realised or thought about the importance of gaps when you are at your most vulnerable….

Mind the Gap
Toilet door gaps are vital for safety and safeguarding. Yet across the country new toilet block designs are getting rid of the gaps at the bottom and tops of toilet doors and partitions, to make cubicles fully enclosed.

Medical Safety
If you feel nauseous or ill you are likely to head to the toilet. If you collapse, you are more likely to survive, or avoid suffering long-term damage, if someone notices and rescues you.

There are known medical reasons for a disproportionally high frequency of cardiac arrests and strokes while an individual is in the toilet room. There are no UK statistics that list where people collapse. However, it is known there are around 100,000 hospital admissions due to heart attacks in this country, equating to one every five minutes. It is estimated there are 400,000 people in the U.K. with undiagnosed heart failure. There are also around 100,000 strokes in this country, equating to one every five minutes. Around 1% of people in this country have epilepsy and around 80 people are diagnosed with epilepsy each day. There are many other conditions that lead to collapse where you need to be noticed and accessed quickly eg. diabetes and asthma.

Children are particularly at risk now more than ever. In the last few years the Department of Education has changed the toilet designs in secondary schools, putting privacy ahead of safety and health. The building schools document now specifies a 0.5cm floor to door gap for privacy. As far as I am aware, there has been no impact assessment on closing the safety gaps. The words ‘safe’, ‘safety’ do not appear in the toilet section but ‘privacy’ in mentioned and this is the reason they gave me.

To put figures into perspective for UK schools there are around 9 children with epilepsy in an average secondary school. There will be on average another 2-3 with Type 1 diabetes. Several hundred children are diagnosed with strokes each year. Every week on average 12 people under the age of 35 are lost to sudden cardiac death.

The DfE understands the important of quickly getting emergency help - it now expects all state funded schools to have at least one defibrillator on site because defibrillation can increase the survival rate by as much as 75%. But knowing the person has collapsed in the first place, and therefore getting help as quickly as possible, is vital.

Like wearing a car seatbelt, toilet door gaps can make the difference in those critical moments.

Governing bodies must ensure arrangements are in place to support pupils with medical conditions. Some children and staff, such as those with epilepsy, may be considered disabled under the definition set out in the Equality Act 2010, and governing bodies must comply with their duties under that Act. When I complained to the DfE they said the governors are responsible for knowing their cohort and that there should be supervision. And that if a pupil did collapse it is ultimately the school and governors’ responsibility. How are governors supposed to know who is about to collapse from a fever, a spiked vape, a hypo, a stroke, a heart attack, a seizure?

Prevention of Sexual Assaults
In any space that becomes private, more offences are likely to take place as there are no witnesses. In Parliament it was discussed that there was at least 1 rape inside a school premises each day (over 600 in a 3 year period). The data, collected by the BBC, mentions an example occurring in a private cupboard. This was in 2015, before many schools decided to change their toilet designs to fully enclosed and mixed sex. The toilet door gaps are vital for safeguarding to help prevent activities that stop pupils, especially girls, going to the toilet.

There is no available data on these new toilet designs but, teachers and pupils are now reporting many problems with ‘drug dealing, drinking and dirt’. In one newspaper article, school staff reported, ‘Kids would go in there to have sex, to drink alcohol. They’d push other kids in and lock themselves in with them. They’d block the drains and flood the corridor.” Another responded: “The toilets were really smelly and unpleasant. Because they were fully enclosed spaces they weren’t properly ventilated, and harder to clean.”
One teacher was worried someone could collapse unnoticed in a completely enclosed cubicle. They said: “The CCTV in the corridor was only any good retrospectively. The toilets had turn locks, so you could open them from the outside if you needed to, but you couldn’t hear through the door, couldn’t see whether there was one or two people in there, or if someone had collapsed.”

Other Health, Safety and Welfare concerns
Toilet cubicles with insufficient ventilation present a high cross infection risk. If toilets are fully enclosed, premises have to rely more on efficient mechanical ventilation to prevent disease spread then school absences rising. The practicalities of cleaning a vomit-covered floor are difficult when the mop can not go under the doors and partitions and the cleaner can not soak the floor with disinfectant from outside the cubicle. Ensuring each individual cubicle is always lit and not vandalised is a concern.

More staff supervision is needed outside these fully enclosed designs as it has been shown that pupils are more likely to engage in multiple occupation activities (sex and drug dealing), illegal activities (taking drugs) and self harm due to the privacy. Staff have the responsibility of checking toilets in the event of an emergency evacuation. This becomes a much longer process without the door gaps to aid quick identification of occupation.

Of course the problems in secondary schools are repeated across the whole country when it comes to unisex toilets in public places. Particularly with women being spiked and nightclubs. And also in disabled toilets which are traditionally mix sex.

I saved a young woman’s life by entering the ladies toilets and saw a blue hand on the cubicle floor through the gap and we rescued her in time. Unfortunately another time it was too late to prevent damage to a child because of a full height door. It is for this latter time I want to educate people and try and get the Department of Education in particular to prioritise safety rather than privacy.

Gaps save lives and prevent assaults.

LifeInAHamsterWheel · 28/12/2024 23:32

AmateurNoun · 28/12/2024 22:16

I’m not bothered by them in ‘controlled’ environments, eg our small office has a unisex toilet. 3 floor to ceiling cubicles but shares a sink

They are still not great in this kind of environment. Somebody I work with was prosecuted for voyeurism involving filming women. Fortunately we have single sex toilets at work, but the point is you can't necessarily trust people you work with and someone like that might have done something at work if he'd be given the chance.

Yes, this. But also I refuse to use the unisex toilets we have at one of our sites as I don't want to hear or be heard by any of my male colleagues. No matter how well I get on with them. I don't feel at risk, but certainly my privacy and dignity would feel compromised.

susieguert · 28/12/2024 23:32

I'm not up for piss all over the floor and bog seat thanks and that's what I've faced in most unisex bathrooms I've been in in London over the past 5/6 years.

shuggles · 28/12/2024 23:32

MyPithyPoster · 28/12/2024 22:07

There’s very good reason why most toilets aren’t floor to ceiling. When you are having a heart attack, you feel like you need to do a poo. A very disconcerting amount of people to die on the toilet. Some of them in public toilets.

This is an important point. It never ceases to amaze me how many people don't realise that toilet doors not being floor to ceiling is an intentional design feature which means you can see if someone has collapsed.

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 28/12/2024 23:30

Themaths · 28/12/2024 22:37

I think we have to normalise men not behaving like feral animals in public toilets - weeing everywhere and generally leaving a mess.
Who has to do this? Women? Women aren't support humans for men or there to tell men to clean up after themselves...

I didn’t mean “women”, I meant society as a whole.

I think it’s quite obvious that’s what I meant.

commonsense61 · 28/12/2024 23:28

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

Moonchildalltheway · 28/12/2024 23:28

Because a lot of men piss all over the toilet seat even more so when they are drunk. I don’t want to have to mop up piss before I can sit and have a wee.

Chumssss · 28/12/2024 23:27

Thank you all for your responses. You’ve mainly echoed my opinions. My DH isn’t saying that all public bathrooms should be unisex, but didn’t believe that my opinion (that they were a terrible idea for women) was that widely held. I wanted to prove that it was

OP posts:
YouMeandBrie · 28/12/2024 23:26

CountZacular · 28/12/2024 23:10

Ive worked in pubs too and have only had the opposite, but if this was in anyway true, unisex toilets would be utterly shit for men too. So not really a winning ‘yay for unisex toilets’ argument.

My DH hates unisex toilets, says they make him feel really uncomfortable and self conscious about making a noise or a smell. I suspect lots of men feel the same, lots of people prefer privacy from the opposite sex.

mitogoshigg · 28/12/2024 23:26

I'm not uncomfortable as long as it's secure cubicles and no urinals. I actually prefer mixed changing at the pool because I don't have to find two separate shampoos and shower gels.

Many places have mixed sex toilets without issue eg small hospitality venues, transport and homes of course. In big locations eg stadiums and shopping malls there's no reason not to have a variety of options to suit everyone including some mixed sex for both trans individuals and families where it's a mum and son or father and daughter too old to go into the opposite sex but parents don't want them going in alone, better than using the disabled toilets

PowerTulle · 28/12/2024 23:23

ClicketyClickPlusOne · 28/12/2024 23:18

I have run a public venue.

Mens toilets are routinely filthier, stinkier.
Men often try to spy on women in toilets, from recording the sound of weeing to climbing into the roof space above cubicles to film, or just putting cameras on the ceiling, or just lurking in a cubicle for ages listening to women in either side weeing.

Lots of women feel self conscious making unwrapping noises wrt menstrual protection products with a strange male the other side of a cubicle wall

Lots of women just feel vulnerable with their knickers down in close proximity to strange men.

Absolutely this. I always notice when the ceiling tiles are missing above a cubicle and you can see up into the space above. Never ever use those ones and do a quick check before I let DC’s into a cubicle.

9999problems · 28/12/2024 23:23

Having walked into the men's toilets before by accident, the stench hit me before I even saw the urinals.

Verbena17 · 28/12/2024 23:22

Would you really want your daughter having to go into a bathroom full of men?

Ladamesansmerci · 28/12/2024 23:19

I just don't want to share a vulnerable space with men. Also, unisex toilets make it easier for sexual assault to take place.

The bathroom is more than a place to wee. On nights out when I was younger, I used to go there to escape creepy guys. You go there to cry. People talk about their boyfriends in there. It's a safe place to ask for menstrual products from other women.

I just don't want men in that space, when for drunk and vulnerable women it is actually a place you go for a bit of peace and safety sometimes. Also, women in some religions might find it super uncomfortable. And call me paranoid, but I just don't wanna be sat pants down with only me and a door with a shit lock between me and a man.

Finally, blokes toilets are generally just grimmer. Public toilets are nasty anyway, but men's are 100x worse.

It would bother me slightly less in a controlled work setting (like a toilet for a small number of people in an office), but even so, so many men pee on the seat and don't clean it up.

ClicketyClickPlusOne · 28/12/2024 23:18

I have run a public venue.

Mens toilets are routinely filthier, stinkier.
Men often try to spy on women in toilets, from recording the sound of weeing to climbing into the roof space above cubicles to film, or just putting cameras on the ceiling, or just lurking in a cubicle for ages listening to women in either side weeing.

Lots of women feel self conscious making unwrapping noises wrt menstrual protection products with a strange male the other side of a cubicle wall

Lots of women just feel vulnerable with their knickers down in close proximity to strange men.