To ask why women would be uncomfortable with unisex bathrooms

So when theres a line of ladies complaining of the queue at the ladies, you consider it ok to stop in there to have a chat? Crazy!

It’s not ridiculous. The ladies loos have been a space to talk to other ladies since forever. I’ve got friends now I first met in the ladies at a gig of a club and we bonded there.

It’s an experience many women share. I’m nearly 60 and I still chat to other ladies in the loos. It’s not a ‘being at school’ thing, it’s many women’s lived experience

Of course everyones experience is different. Believe me I have no wish to share toilets. But no, using it for having a talk about breakups and other serious experiences, is just ridiculous.

Although I can understand using it to escape potential threat.

Although I can see the majority of women here have the opposite experience to this, If women’s toilets are normally far dirtier than the men’s, why would a man want to use shared spaces with them?

In terms of having a chat in the toilet it really shows how little empathy and understanding you have for women. Toilets have been a place where I’ve supported friends through breakups, baby loss and sexual assault - and I really don’t think that’s an unusual thing for women. We use it as a place to breakaway from the crowd when something has happened and we need advice.

I’ve used women’s toilets as a place to hide from a predatory man. That flimsy sign was enough to scare off the man because he knew there was a likelihood of other women in there. But what if he’d followed me into one of those single, fully enclosed cubicles? What would I have done?

@BlueLurker

The BA lounge loos in Heathrow T5 have all been made neutral this year, it has helped no end with queues - previously either the men’s or women’s usually had mega queues (but no rhyme or reason for which it was at any moment), but now supply much more closely matches demand

I complained to BA about this change. I don’t like it and think it’s unnecessary (I have not experienced the mega queues you reference). The generally grimness of shared facilities is offset by the fact that they are cleaned after every use but you can definitely tell it’s a mixed sex cubicle.

BA apologised and gave me a ton of air miles. Every time I fly I will make the same complaint.

Quite.

this is a great way to reframe the discussion. How do mixed sex toilets benefit women?

@Boredlass fortunately not seen a random penis but I have definitely see open cubicles with men peeing with door open.

We have unisex loos at work and some female/male loos. The unisex loos and the male loos are awful, wee on the floor, shit stains, wee all over the seat which I accidentally sit on or have to clean off before sitting down. Less handwashing so dirty door handles. Just gross. Thankfully womens loos are consistently cleaner, more handwashing too. I occasionally might find a blocked womens toilet but it’s pretty rare.

Secondly it’s intimidating and unsafe being in a mixed sex loo. Of course most sexual assaults occur in mixed sex environments and not women’s single sex environments which are much much safer.

I worked in an office where the men routinely used the women’s toilets… they were absolutely revolting. The women as a consequence had to go out and use the guest loos by the reception area… not ideal but a better alternative!

A pub I used to go to the quiz at regularly made their loos unisex… not a single bloke ever bothered shutting the cubicle door when they were having a piss, so you had to walk past a parade of bare arses to find a cubicle that was actually empty.

I've cleaned toilets in the past. The womens was normally far dirtier than the mens. So many women must hover and miss the bowl entirely resulting in pee down the outside of the bowl and on the seat. San (used) pro products and their wrappings just chucked on the floor. Makeup on counters. etc etc.

I'd suggest the best set up would be urinals for men seperate from the cubicles and unisex floor to ceiling cubicles with hand wash facility within. Then only men going for a crap would have reason to be in there.

I always laugh at these threads where some woman comments on chatting with her friends in the loo. You aren't at school any more, get a move on there is a queue.

No, I do not believe that ArcheryAnnie wrote that at all, otherwise she would have typed that or a very close resemblance to that.

Excuse me, @ArcheryAnnie, but surely you're not suggesting that a woman lives alone will always a separate bathroom for men, to avoid a unisex one? In my experience, even a single woman may be visited by a male friend, a male cousin, a father, or a repair man who may need a bathroom.

@Hoppinggreen

Where have you read that mostly men want unisex toilets?

I’m a woman. I don’t want unisex toilets I just don’t care about them. The places I have been that have unisex toilets the set-up made sense either:

1. Small cafes with exactly one toilet so it was necessarily unisex

2. Stand alone units with toilet, sink and dryer inside

3. Sex segregated toilets (room full of cubicles for the ladies) but the sink area was open and shared. Experienced a few times in bars and clubs.

I have just never really cared in any of these situations and see no reason to start caring.

Because unisex toilets stink. Without exception in my experience.

So there only wasnt a problem because there wasn't men in using them???

However, there's a distinct lack of threads on MN from women who say their men are equally this vile at home? Are these men perfectly sanitary at home, but displaying disgusting standards in the workplace?
we know generally men have poor hygiene as when told to wash their hands during covid, there were suddenly queues at the men‘s toilets.

and many men in the home annoy their wives by missing the toilet bowl. And that is one man. Imagine a constant stream of that in public toilets.

all these women on offices with disgusting men need to constantly report to HR.

And then mens are rank ALL the time. I was a cleaner for 20 years, I know exactly how disgusting the mens are and the smell is revolting. Yes occasionally the womens was rank, but in all the years I did I can count and remember the womens being nasty(usually for a reason) the mens is just a merge of disgusting on top of disgusting. I do not want to share.

My opinion is as valid as those who dont care. But I should get my way. It's been the default since 100 years ago when women got toilets and if those who dont care, "really" dont care, they are welcome to start using the mens from this day on.

On the basis of comfort - mens' toilets are often messy and smelly.

On the more important safety aspect - some toilets in bars or restaurants are often quite isolated. Sometimes at the end of a corridor or on a completely different floor to the main public area. I would feel very uncomfortable if I was in a quiet, isolated toilet and an unknown man walked in. It would be very easy for any man with awful intentions to get to a lone female.

If this is the case why does the sexual assault level drop when women are offered female-only facilities?
https://qz.com/692711/the-radically-simple-way-to-make-female-refugees-safer-from-sexual-assault-decent-bathrooms

why do stats tell us there’s a similar pattern in the uk? https://fairplayforwomen.com/unisex-changing-rooms-put-women-in-danger/ ?

I don't mind them at all. My only irk is that men tend to leave the toilet seat up.

The only ones I've had a bit of an issue with is at Home in Manchester. Daughter asked to go to loo sent her off she was 13 at the time, she comes back and I nip. They have clearly just put unisex stickers on the previous toilets so you had to walk past the urinals to get to the cubicle at the back. Thankfully there were no fellas in at the time as she was wouldn't have known where to look if they had been having a wee attack he urinal

Went to one today. It really was an uncomfortable experience!

We have unisex toilets in the office. Men come in talking on their phones, go to the loo, don't flush, don't wash their hands. They leave the floors in disgusting states. I hate using the toilets because of the state they are in (I know women's can be awful too but, on all previous workplace experience, they were nothing compared to how these ones are)

I don't think most men do either. And men who identify as women certainly don't, they want woman's toilets to exist so they can use them!

So I think it's coming from three groups:

1. People who identify as progressive (PWIAP) who have got it into their heads that noticing sex exists is sexist and if we all pretend not to notice sexism stops happening. And to be fair to them, in theory yes it would, but it requires the big scary sexists also stop noticing sex exists. But that's really hard so the PWIAPs decided to start by intimidating women, charities, politicicans and companies into pretending they don't notice sex exists which is much easier, and hope the big scary sexists catch up of their own accord. Which does fuck-all to help with the actual sexism obviously, but since only women who haven't signed up to ignore sex are in a position to say so, and since those women are obviously the wrong non-progressive sort of woman, it's ok to ignore them and feel super good about punching one in the eye to patriachy by getting rid of the sexist segregation of toilets. This is why so many art venues, trendy bars, venues etc went unisex.
2. Organisations who need to offer toilets to their staff/users/customers and do not want to touch the trans toilets debate with a bargepole so think they can swerve the whole thing by not having women's and men's toilets in the first place.
3. People who are very invested in trans rights who have noticed that the same people who object to trans women in women's spaces also object to unisex toilets (for the obvious reason that what they actually object to is males in spaces where female people are exposed or vulnerable or fetishised, regardless of how those male people may identify) and taking the view that "if the TERFs are against it I should be for it", come all out in favour. (I recognise a few names on this thread who fit that pattern.) The really ironic thing of course is that there's no particular reason supporting trans rights would go hand in hand with unisex toilets, but that's tribalism for you.

You're not reading the right threads. Plenty of men are animals at home as well as at the office or out and about.

On top of that there are people who will resist their animal urges in their own homes where they will be identified, but will happily be disgusting when nobody will know it was them.

Indeed
I think another useful question would be why do people (mostly men) want unisex toilets?
I know DH and DS don't. Poor DS and his mates were horrified at the thought of going to the same toilets as me at a recent sporting event, they "guarded" the door until I came out and then went themselves.

Indeed, the euphemisms 'bathrooms' and 'restrooms' have definitely been imported from the US for the purpose of obfuscation IMO.

But god forbid that one stands accused of importing the wrong american thought process, eg agreeing with Riley Gaines, lest one is ranted at for being <checks notes> a right-wing, evangelical, gun-toting Trump supporter, which is a tad unfair I feel on the population of Dunny-on-the-Wold.