Undertaking VS middle lane hogging

WatcherWatch · 2024-12-28T16:39:27+00:00

I drive a lot on this motorway so this isn’t new. But I just wonder what other people do in this situation. (I was not driving while taking the photo. My mother was) On joining the motorway our slip road becomes a lane. We stay in our lane and are doing 70mph along the road. There are no cars in lane 2 directly to out right. Because they are ALL sitting in lane 3 or 4. And they are ALL doing between 50 and 60mph. So we are technically undertaking them. But we’d either have to cross over from lane 1 to 4 just to get past them which is absolutely ridiculous. Today we could have got in to lane 4 if needed but some days that’s just as packed and going just as slowly so overtaking would not actually be possible. So I tend to stay in lane 1 and just maintain my speed. My mother was a bit worried about undertaking and would have preferred to cross all the way over to overtake but decided not to bother as we weren’t going far anyway. What would everyone do in this situation? Especially on days when lane 4 is also busy so overtaking would be impossible. On those days you’d need to slow down and squeeze into lane 4 to go slower than you would in lane 1. And you wouldn’t be able to overtake in the end anyway as they all drive at the same speed. While lanes 1 and 2 stay empty.

HornyHornersPinger · 29/12/2024 18:46

You aren't undertaking though you're maintaining you're 'correct' lane positioning. I'd only move over if I came up on a car in front on lane 1.

billysboy · 29/12/2024 09:53

carry on undertaking , lots of things to worry about in this country and I dont feel this is one of them .

hamsandyams · 29/12/2024 09:47

WatcherWatch · 29/12/2024 01:20

The problem is they are all in lane 3. Not 2. So why weren’t they in lane 2 (which would have been lane 1 before my lane joined) to start with? They were obviously in the middle lane LONG before my lane joined.
Honestly though trust me. They were not a queue of Highway Code following cars all waiting to nicely pull over into lane 1. They ALL stayed in that lane for the entire time I could see them both before I joined the motorway and after I’d gone past them. There was absolutely no one in front of me OR in lane 2 (which was lane 1 before I joined) for as far as I could see. Not even a distant lorry. There was zero reason for all those cars to be in lane 2 (then 3). I joined and created an empty lane 1. Lane 2 was also empty. Why??

I’m not saying this to prove why undertaking is the correct thing to do. I do understand why you shouldn’t do it. But i just see on these threads so many people give reasons and excuses why they might all be in the middle/wrong lane. But there is no reason why a 4 lane motorway should have 2 lanes totally empty. It’s absolutely ridiculous.

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Oh absolutely, they’re all in the wrong, it’s frustrating and they should all get points on their licence. My point is, anyone undertaking is also in the wrong and I’d be just as annoyed by the undertaker, and think the undertaker is in fact more dangerous than the hogger.

You should roll your eyes, mutter under your breath and pull into the fourth lane to overtake. You lose your moral high ground by undertaking as then you’re just as bad - and maybe worse because you’re doing it knowingly rather than in the presumed ignorance of the middle lane hoggers .

Oblomov24 · 29/12/2024 01:46

I'd stay in lane 1.

Original poster

WatcherWatch · 29/12/2024 01:20

hamsandyams · 29/12/2024 01:03

You haven’t quoted the relevant section of the Highway Code here. This is the relevant section:

https://highwaycode.org.uk/rule-268/?sf_paged=14

the photo in the OP does not show congested traffic moving at similar speeds and so the OP/driver should have pulled out to overtake. Middle lane hogging is wrong, but so is undertaking and two wrongs don’t make a right. Particularly in the scenario the OP describes where the left hand lane has just joined the motorway and those already on the motorway would be looking to move over to remain in the left lane - this is much harder to do when the cars joining are undertaking.

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The problem is they are all in lane 3. Not 2. So why weren’t they in lane 2 (which would have been lane 1 before my lane joined) to start with? They were obviously in the middle lane LONG before my lane joined.
Honestly though trust me. They were not a queue of Highway Code following cars all waiting to nicely pull over into lane 1. They ALL stayed in that lane for the entire time I could see them both before I joined the motorway and after I’d gone past them. There was absolutely no one in front of me OR in lane 2 (which was lane 1 before I joined) for as far as I could see. Not even a distant lorry. There was zero reason for all those cars to be in lane 2 (then 3). I joined and created an empty lane 1. Lane 2 was also empty. Why??

I’m not saying this to prove why undertaking is the correct thing to do. I do understand why you shouldn’t do it. But i just see on these threads so many people give reasons and excuses why they might all be in the middle/wrong lane. But there is no reason why a 4 lane motorway should have 2 lanes totally empty. It’s absolutely ridiculous.

OP posts:

BourbonsAreOverated · 29/12/2024 01:11

wombat1a · 29/12/2024 00:42

We should just legalise it, overtaking on any side works well in many other countries so why can't be do it here.

Also most right side driving countries allow turning right on a red (i.e. treating it as a give way for turning only). I would legalise treating a red as a give way for turning left over here too.

Or people could drive properly.

its lane hogging
Not indicating
not giving way on roundabouts or sneaking out in people’s blind spots.

driving seems to have become so selfish in recent years

hamsandyams · 29/12/2024 01:05

wombat1a · 29/12/2024 00:42

We should just legalise it, overtaking on any side works well in many other countries so why can't be do it here.

Also most right side driving countries allow turning right on a red (i.e. treating it as a give way for turning only). I would legalise treating a red as a give way for turning left over here too.

The left on a red makes pedestrian crosses treacherous though. The amount of near misses we saw when driving in the US when pedestrians are free to go but so is traffic was scary!

hamsandyams · 29/12/2024 01:03

GymBuffMum · 28/12/2024 16:57

It is not illegal if you are maintaining your speed in your lane and lane ahead in clear. Highway Code states you should keep in the left hand lane. It’s the middle lane hoggers who are in breach.

I constantly have to undertake on M11/M25 near me or I’d constantly have to be moving over multiple lanes. I take foot off accelerator as I undertake and ensure hard shoulder is clear in case of emergency.

It’s shocking this now very common way of driving (middle lane hogging) is not policed vociferously.

highwaycode.org.uk/lane-discipline/#:~:text=Highway%20Code%20Rule%20264,as%20you%20are%20safely%20past.

You haven’t quoted the relevant section of the Highway Code here. This is the relevant section:

https://highwaycode.org.uk/rule-268/?sf_paged=14

the photo in the OP does not show congested traffic moving at similar speeds and so the OP/driver should have pulled out to overtake. Middle lane hogging is wrong, but so is undertaking and two wrongs don’t make a right. Particularly in the scenario the OP describes where the left hand lane has just joined the motorway and those already on the motorway would be looking to move over to remain in the left lane - this is much harder to do when the cars joining are undertaking.

Highway Code Rule 268 - Highway Code

Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these...

https://highwaycode.org.uk/rule-268?sf_paged=14

Fluffypuppy1 · 29/12/2024 00:56

WatcherWatch · 29/12/2024 00:43

This is another thing I hate. I’ve seen an increasing number of people waving those on their left to go at roundabouts. Like it’s a junction and being “nice” by letting them out. That’s not how they work. I’ve seen a lot of close calls recently at roundabouts when someone flashes a car to go who shouldn’t be going. Just follow the rules of the road and it will all flow much smoother!
(I’m also just outside the M25. Hertfordshire)

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I agree. The ones at our roundabouts don’t even wave or flash their lights, they just stop, so everyone looks at each other for a few minutes until a couple of cars dare to go, then have to stop and figure out who should go first. 🤦‍♀️ It’s pretty much every weekday on school run times so is massively adding to traffic delays.

Original poster

WatcherWatch · 29/12/2024 00:43

Fluffypuppy1 · 29/12/2024 00:28

Where I live (just outside the M25) people have no idea what to do at roundabouts. So on a busy town roundabout cars which should go stop, then everyone ends up just sitting and waiting to see who dares to go first.

Show quote history

This is another thing I hate. I’ve seen an increasing number of people waving those on their left to go at roundabouts. Like it’s a junction and being “nice” by letting them out. That’s not how they work. I’ve seen a lot of close calls recently at roundabouts when someone flashes a car to go who shouldn’t be going. Just follow the rules of the road and it will all flow much smoother!
(I’m also just outside the M25. Hertfordshire)

OP posts:

wombat1a · 29/12/2024 00:42

We should just legalise it, overtaking on any side works well in many other countries so why can't be do it here.

Also most right side driving countries allow turning right on a red (i.e. treating it as a give way for turning only). I would legalise treating a red as a give way for turning left over here too.

Fluffypuppy1 · 29/12/2024 00:28

This reply has been deleted

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

Where I live (just outside the M25) people have no idea what to do at roundabouts. So on a busy town roundabout cars which should go stop, then everyone ends up just sitting and waiting to see who dares to go first.

neilyoungismyhero · 29/12/2024 00:12

CitiesInDust · 28/12/2024 16:41

I wouldn’t undertake as it’s illegal and dangerous. You could move into someone’s blind spot without them realising etc. I’d always go round them the right way, even if I had to just sit in lane four.

It's not illegal. It's not advisable for obvious reasons but it's not illegal.

EBearhug · 29/12/2024 00:09

Often, if you stay in the left lane, as you generally should unless overtaking, you'll have more stopping distance because others don't seem to use it.

I've driven quite a bit in the last couple of days, and I suspect there have been more drivers than usual who are not very used to motorway driving, especially with the added fun of fog.

HeddaGarbled · 28/12/2024 23:49

I would settle down comfortably at the speed of the traffic. It’s a busy motorway. 50-70 is fine.

WaitingforStrike · 28/12/2024 23:45

Info from a police website -

Rule 268 of the Highway Code states – do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.
OFFENCE
Overtaking on the left is lawful if done in accordance with the above guidance. However, whilst there is no specific offence of overtaking on the left, if a driver undertook another vehicle, other than in the circumstances described above e.g. in the case of someone hogging lane 2 on a motorway, they may be prosecuted for careless driving.

HereForTheAnimals · 28/12/2024 23:42

@pinkstripeycat so I'm on a dual carriageway, the speed limit is 40, they are doing 35 in the right hand lane and there is someone inevitably up their arse. I'm on the left and I hang back, giving them the opportunity to move over, they don't and so I decide to pass them very carefully observing. I'm undertaking here, and they decide to pull over, I beep but they still hit me. Is this my fault? It seems as though I'm undertaking, but actually, they were lane hogging and potentially causing more serious accidents.

It hasn't happened, I'm just curious as to what you think.

pinkstripeycat · 28/12/2024 23:32

Thank heavens most posters know undertaking isn’t illegal.

It’s nice to know there are some safe and knowledgeable drivers out there as I see and experience idiots on the road ALL the time in my job.

My pupils are always being passed dangerously and unnecessarily because people assume they are going slow as they are learners. Inevitably those passing end up speeding as my pupils are, in fact, driving to speed limit.

CharlotteLightandDark · 28/12/2024 23:31

there was a tv public service ad on recently about middle lane hogging, it didn’t make much sense though.

pinkstripeycat · 28/12/2024 23:28

CitiesInDust · 28/12/2024 16:41

I wouldn’t undertake as it’s illegal and dangerous. You could move into someone’s blind spot without them realising etc. I’d always go round them the right way, even if I had to just sit in lane four.

Undertaking is NOT illegal. I am a driving instructor and DH is a police officer so we know!

Undertaking is more dangerous because it’s harder for the driver to check their left blind spot than their right.

If undertaking was illegal then the Highway Code wouldn’t tell you that you can pass a driver on their left if your lane is moving faster than theirs.

Saltedcaramelfudge · 28/12/2024 23:25

HereForTheAnimals · 28/12/2024 23:18

No apparently not, and I'm not disagreeing with you, but you can be fined for it. How does that work? Is it the same as staying in a parking place for longer than your ticket says? Is that illegal? I'd have thought that if something incurred a potential fine, it might be illegal 🤣. Don't mean to sound so naive here, just baffled.

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The offence would be driving without due care or dangerous driving depending on what happened. In and of itself undertaking isn’t illegal. If an accident occurred, then it would be one of the above.

Nogaxeh · 28/12/2024 23:23

HereForTheAnimals · 28/12/2024 23:18

No apparently not, and I'm not disagreeing with you, but you can be fined for it. How does that work? Is it the same as staying in a parking place for longer than your ticket says? Is that illegal? I'd have thought that if something incurred a potential fine, it might be illegal 🤣. Don't mean to sound so naive here, just baffled.

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Undertaking is something where it's okay in some circumstances and not others. So there's not a blanket law against it, but it would still be the wrong thing to do (and therefore, I suppose, technically contrary to the law as showing that you were driving without due care and attention) in a particular situation.

So, killing someone is not illegal. You're allowed to kill someone if you are acting in self-defence and it was not your intent to kill. But murder is illegal, but murder requires both killing someone and intending to kill them, or to cause them so much harm that you are being reckless about their survival.

Saltedcaramelfudge · 28/12/2024 23:23

CitiesInDust · 28/12/2024 16:41

I wouldn’t undertake as it’s illegal and dangerous. You could move into someone’s blind spot without them realising etc. I’d always go round them the right way, even if I had to just sit in lane four.

It’s not illegal to undertake. I suggest you read the Highway Code.

Nogaxeh · 28/12/2024 23:19

It's not illegal to undertake.

You should avoid undertaking where possible, but in the situation posted it's perfectly reasonable to undertake because the flow of traffic in lanes 3 and 4 is in a much slower-moving queue.

If, say, you approach a middle-lane hog in lane 2 of an otherwise deserted three lane motorway, then you should move over to lane 3 to overtake them and then return to lane 1, rather than undertake them in lane 1.

The roads would be a lot safer if the worst 5-10% of drivers were removed from them.

HereForTheAnimals · 28/12/2024 23:18

Icanttakethisanymore · 28/12/2024 23:12

it’s not illegal to undertake.

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No apparently not, and I'm not disagreeing with you, but you can be fined for it. How does that work? Is it the same as staying in a parking place for longer than your ticket says? Is that illegal? I'd have thought that if something incurred a potential fine, it might be illegal 🤣. Don't mean to sound so naive here, just baffled.