Shared disability toilets with baby changing facilities

@DragonFly98 As a veteran of several baby shit explosions I'm really trying to imagine a scenario in which I could change just the nappy, and then leave the toilet area and change the shit smeared clothes (which have by now smeared shit on to the clean nappy and the baby) without offending the others users of the coffee shop / wherever.

Unless I were to strip and clean the baby and then just redress him outside the cubicle which admittedly may save an 30 entire seconds or so? In that case would you also argue that a disabled person also only uses the facilities for actual toileting, and any associated change or clean up required goes on in public?

The issue here is with the business owners combining the facilities, not with any of the people who need to use the facilities. Nobody is using a toilet or changing facility for a laugh, everybody does so because they actually need to.

Exactly. Sadly it is indactive of the state of the world we live in.

when DS was a baby (and as a single mum) I always avoided using disabled toilets, I would plan ahead to places with a fold down table or even better a separate room. That was 16 years ago and before I had had the misfortune of experience the world of disability.

now I have a disabled child and relatives with stomas and I realise how much harder poor planning and selfish individuals make it for them to be able to even leave the house.

If people just took a second to think of others before themselves the world would be a much better places

It does matter

@Sirzy Of course it would matter if it was that other poster, she's only comfortable implying it doesn't matter because OP is disabled. It doesn't matter when WE are left soiled and dirty and embarrassed because we're gross anyway. That is the underlying attitude. (I know it isn't yours.)

I am so sick of the Mumsnet ableists who would never be okay with casually soiling themselves but think the impact on us is negligible.

Disabled toilets with a a video doorbell so access is only granted to those who need it (unfortunately no idea how that works for invisible disabilities) I mean that bit in brackets is pretty damn important. You can't have a video doorbell system... because it's not a 100% visual thing. And you can't expect someone to want to explain their disability before being allowed entry.

You are 100% in the right, OP, but most people on Mumsnet cannot cope with the idea that disabled toilets are for disabled people, and insist that they are for anyone who wants to waltz in there on any pretext. I totally understand that you're not blaming the mum in question as she obviously didn't design this set up, but the key issue is the lack of consideration for the needs of disabled people. Even despite our years of passionate advocacy, our needs are always expected to come last even though it's often us who are most intimately humiliated by others using our facilities.

I'm sorry you were put in this position. Thanks for posting to raise awareness in this very hostile setting.

Shopping centres are the best in my experience too. My local one has separate men’s and women’s toilets, a handful of accessible toilets plus a handful of toilets which have a changing area and sink plus a loo. Another one nearby has a whole separate area of changing areas plus a few cubicles big enough for a pram. But they have the luxury of space that cafes and restaurants just do now have.

Im really sorry that happened @MobilityCat I totally agree that while we need baby changing rooms of all the places to be sacrificed or combined with, it shouldnt be the disabled/ accessible loo. I have a relative with mobility issues and bowel issues and when she needs to go, she needs to go, these spaces are vital for her independence and dignity. Equally my little one went through a very challenging phase regarding getting changed so it wasn't a quick in and out jobby. I hated being in shared rooms because I was so aware someone could need it but I couldnt easily vacate, nor should I have to.

Those things are fundamentally incompatible. They should be separate or a disabled only toilet and a more general 'accessible' toilet with more floor space for baby changing/ those who need space and then less standard cubicles preferably taken from the mens room allocation as they never have queues.

It sounds like such a distressing experience and yes, having extra toileting facilities and nappy changing facilities would be ideal. The only thing I would say is that regardless of whether it’s a very quick nappy change or a blowout that requires clothes to be changed, I would have always chatted and sang to my child, probably more so if it was taking me time to try and keep them feeling comfortable, not to annoy anyone else waiting. I’m not sure what else you can do as a parent if that’s where it’s located.

A post where an adult soiled herself because of poor planning and you say it doesn’t matter? Would it matter if it was you in that situation?

But why change the full outfit in the toilet. The “change” was n baby change means the nappy. The clothes can be done stood up leaning over the pram or with baby on your knee.
Did it not occur to your partner to use the room for as little time as possible?

It’s sadly another sign of how little respect planners show to people with disabilities. They do the minimum to tick a box.

i remember being in a chain restaurant with ds in his wheelchair. Some sort of baby group must have been in at the same time. Ds was crying he needed a wee but we were in a queue behind 5 prams, when we asked to go first two refused. There was baby change in the ladies but that was obviously slightly tricker so they waited. Ds couldn’t wait 😢

It really doesn't matter. You can't ever guarantee that the loo will be free be it the women's or the disabled. Sometimes you have to wait. Old buildings don't easily accommodate more facilities and most companies don't care for the cost.

I suffer from crohns so I share your pain re the crapping yourself but I have to admit I love accessible toilets with a baby changing table- gives me somewhere to lay out all my stoma stuff.

It really doesn’t include people with pushchairs ( unless using the baby change) Stick the pram in the door of the cubicle yes it won’t shut but nobody is making you take a pram out. I know have a wheelchair and a pram. Before I became disabled I never used anything other than a regular cubicle unless changing a baby.

I understand why you were upset OP and I think any new build facility should have totally separate disabled toilet and baby change facilities (we encountered lots of that on holiday in Spain, only once in the UK so far). I also understand that it's not always possible in existing buildings though and honestly I'd prefer to change him in a private space than a drop down table in the general toilets, especially the male toilets when DH changes him.

I'd add that not ever have I 'taken my own sweet time' over a nappy change though. Sometimes it takes a while but I am always getting it done as fast as humanly possible, especially when the space I'm in is also an accessible toilet (which is not my choice nor fault). If cooing in an attempt to stop my baby thrashing about speeds things up then that's what I'll do.

I do agree with this but the issue is at least in our local Asda & Morrisons, there’s no space in the female toilets (can’t speak for the males as haven’t seen inside) for any baby changing facilities, and you wouldn’t be able to get the pram in there even if there was. Most supermarkets allocate literally the bare minimum space for toilets because actually if it is purely just a shop then they don’t legally have to have customer toilets at all which would have been a much more difficult situation for OP & for everyone.

Nappy changing should be in the male and female toilets and in the disabled toilets (for disabled parents). No way should you have had to wait for an able bodied parent to do a nappy change. I’m sorry this happened to you. It’s unacceptable.

I guess because fathers have to change nappies too

Also, as for your suggestion regarding a changing table in the women's toilet. Personally I think my baby is as entitled to privacy as anyone else. Also, how would my DP then have changed her? Or is that a pink job?

My partner was changing our DD in a coffee shop near us which has a combined baby change/disabled toilet. She had a poo explosion so was a full outfit change so took a while and he came out to a load of abuse from a disabled man waiting for the loo, which made my DD cry. My partner suggested he take it up with the manager of the shop, they cram these coffee shops in such tiny spaces it’s ridiculous.

As a mum it can take a while to change a nappy and the chatting and cooing was probably a method to get it done without the baby screaming the place. I always want to get out of public toilets as quickly as possible - but with smaller ones it can take forever!

I have noticed this, unless it’s a modern and newer build with a purpose built baby toilet with a nice breastfeeding room (not the horrible bathrooms where you might as well feel like you are feeding your baby on a toilet seat)! I see that disabled toilets and baby facilities are merged into 1 and I honestly do not think this is fair. Not because of the time it takes - as you may have had this issue if it happened to be another person with a disability infront of you - but because they have different purposes and should be built with the user in mind.

I’ve had to change my baby ontop of bathroom counters, on the buggy, in all sorts of places whereby some venues just haven’t thought of other users. This tends to be smaller places though like family owned resturants or similar.

Would love to see this discussed in development though.

Sorry you experienced this OP, it sounds very unfortunate.
I agree that separate spaces would be better, or make up for it by having 2 accessible toilet/baby change areas

Cooing at the baby usually makes the nappy change that little bit quicker, particularly if it's an "interesting" change...

Cooing, rather than growling please god don't poo while your nappy is off, get your hand out of the nappy, crumbs I need three hands, don't eat the flipping wipes, please stop rolling again.

My worst long nappy changes were cleaning up after myself after a messy change, poo everywhere type situation, would prefer not to leave a disaster area!

There are places that do get it right.
I've seen shopping centres with "pushchair cubicles" in the womens toilets (no ideaif there was similar in the mens)
Family toilets with a changing table, and sometimes a small toilet as well as a normal toilet (disabled toilet elsewhere)
Disabled toilets with a a video doorbell so access is only granted to those who need it (unfortunately no idea how that works for invisible disabilities) and similar on the baby change
The lovely John Lewis family room with a changing area, a women only breastfeeding area and a separate bottle feeding area, with comfy seating (and toys for siblings)