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friend ‘lodging’ gone sour

494 replies

sausagedogmumm · 26/12/2024 23:10

Need some advice/opinions

Myself and my partner let a friend lodge with us a few months back. At the time she had no where to go and we offered to help, as it’s just the 2 of us with 3 bedrooms. The original deal was a stop gap for her whilst she got herself sorted, we agreed she wouldn’t pay rent but instead pay for household bits and bills. This was a short term fix, she has a cat who we originally said would have to stay elsewhere as we have cats and a puppy of our own and our cats are female and not yet spayed and live inside and hers is a male, outside cat. She also informed us all her belongings would be stored elsewhere, it would just be her and the stuff she needed for a short while, whilst she got back on her feet.

She was unable to find anywhere for her cat to stay so we suggested he stayed downstairs in our dinning room which leads out into the garden and would give him access in and out - it’s a big space and cosy and would mean he was completely separate from our pets, we even suggested she could bring him up stairs at night - our spare room is tiny so this seemed a better option for him.

The week she moved in, we were informed she’d lost her job and the storage had fallen through, so suddenly we had her, alllll her stuff and her cat in our tiny spare room (and her belongings filling our garage and dinning room). She then refused to house the cat downstairs and instead insisted we put up a ‘shelf’ on the outside of our mid terrace house so he could jump in and out. We turned this down, so after a lot of trying to change our minds, she settled for him being let out the front door (carried down).

We realised within a month in, none of our ground rules had really been respected, she was regularly letting her cat mix with ours and then randomly dropped on us, her cat has a gum disease which can be transferred through salvia. She did not contribute to bills and would leave all her dirty washing up in the bowl for us to clean. She then began to leave her cat outside all evening and go out, which caused our neighbours to complain he was trying to get into their houses - to which her response was to tell them to ‘f off.’ She spilled some kind of ink on our carpet which she didn’t inform us of and it’s now ground in and the whole thing needs replacing, put posters on our walls and cracked our paintwork.

As you can imagine, we are very frustrated with the situation and became even more so, when she asked to write up a contract claiming she was paying rent so she could claim more benefits. We refused as she was not actually wanting to pay but transfer it to us and then us send it back and we said we cannot since that is fraud and we are in jobs that require a DBS.

This caused her to become even worse with us and she now regularly moans at us for things like letting her cat in when it’s raining or shutting her bedroom window if we’re going out for the evening and she’s also out till late.

We decided to inform her, we would need our spare room back by the end of jan (6 weeks notice), we stated this was mainly due to our cat ripping out her fur due to the stress of the male cat in the house, meaning until he’s gone, our poor girl is on steroids and stress relief which is costing us hundreds. This combined with the fact she leaves heaters and lights on at all times and has 2 hour baths which has caused our bills to triple, has meant we can no longer have her stay.

She has taken this awfully, threatening suicide and claiming she’ll be on the streets. We have suggested again and again, she contacts the council to try and get housing support but she refused to do so until we told her she had 6 weeks.

Was it fair of us to give her a deadline to move out? We genuinely cannot afford it and my partner grew up in a household with a parent who regularly threatened suicide so as you can guess, he is finding it all very hard

OP posts:
CannotWaitForSummervibes · 28/12/2024 17:14

Don’t wait 6 weeks. She needs to be gone at the end if this week. She abused your trust the day she arrived by not sticking to any of the agreement.

TrustTheProcess · 28/12/2024 17:12

Personally I would tell her that that you and your husband are not equipped to deal with somebody who is suicidal, and that her insinuating you are responsible it is having a serious affect on both of your own mental health, so she needs to leave sooner and direct her to he relevant services. If she continues to threaten suicide, ring 111.

I'm sorry you are going through this, it's horrible when people are not willing to take responsibility for themselves.

Therealjudgejudy · 28/12/2024 16:52

She is a parasite who has played you and your husband.

Get her gone, like yesterday!

MoveOnTheCards · 28/12/2024 15:48

Surely this isn’t real? Are you still there @sausagedogmumm?

FrivolousKitchenRollUse · 27/12/2024 17:31

To echo others, based on her reaction you need to review the 6 weeks as she will now up the unreasonable behaviour and I would be very wary of leaving her in the house alone.

pinkyredrose · 27/12/2024 17:01

marmia1234 · 27/12/2024 07:53

Not in UK but I would be calling someone in authority and explain what's happened. CAHMS ( that's what it's called here for people having a mental breakdown) they are very fast in Australia. The first mention of suicide I would have called the police and explained you have a person threatening to commit suicide and they need to be escorted to the hospital
She must have some family or friend somewhere but if not pack all her stuff nicely in a big bag and put it in your garage.
The cat I would take to a cat shelter and give her name and number. Say she's unwell at the moment but could they hold the cat for a while.
Can't think of much else sorry. Horrid situation.

Shelters won't take cats from someone other than the owner. Op should say she found the cat and bring him in as lost.

NeverDropYourMooncup · 27/12/2024 16:32

Bet the reason she had 'nowhere else to go' was exactly the same as you've experienced.

Council offices are open on Monday. She'll likely tell you that they've said there's nothing.

Doesn't matter one bit - and in view of the threats, I'd suggest you changing your mind about the six weeks, otherwise it'll be eighteen months before you know it.

MadinMarch · 27/12/2024 16:09

Polyethyl · 27/12/2024 11:16

Is it a lodger situation when no rent is paid?
If there is no payment then it surely can't even be a lodger status. Just unwanted guest status.

@Polyethyl Very good point and I think you're correct.
My main point was that an AST could not be created here, even if OP signed such a document.

Undisclosedlocation · 27/12/2024 15:43

You are a much nicer person than I am OP! With that level of piss taking I’d have waited for her to go out. Then changed the locks

AngelicKaty · 27/12/2024 15:13

Hibernatingtilspring · 27/12/2024 14:33

@Pineapplewaves the council aren't likely to give this woman any accommodation even if she is actually homeless on the day with nowhere to sleep that night - unless there's some exceptional vulnerability that the OP hasn't yet told us.
That's not to say that op should continue to house her, but relying on the council to take her off her hands isn't helpful advice.

Indeed, unless OP's friend has some vulnerable circumstance that puts her in "priority" need they will not give her short-term "emergency" housing or longer term housing. However, there are other ways the local authority can help and so stating that she should make a homeless application to them is helpful advice. For example, you can make such an application 56 days prior to actual homelessness and this would have put her on the LA's Housing Options Team's radar. This team has two duties under housing law: "prevention" and "relief". Under the prevention duty they would have spoken to OP to explore if there was any way her "friend" could continue to stay there (and also investigate if there are family or other friends who could take her in). Of course, OP is not at all obliged to agree to this. They can discharge their relief duty by simply pointing the friend to the private rented sector and advising her to claim UC. Once she's in receipt of UC she can find a room to rent and claim the housing element of UC to cover her rent (or at least contribute to it). Also, once she's in receipt of UC, if she finds somewhere to rent but doesn't have any funds to pay the deposit and first month's rent (likely given that she's been unemployed for several weeks now), she can request a Discretionary Housing Payment (DHP) from the LA to cover this. The truth is, if OP's so-called friend had made a homeless application in late November, when OP and her DP gave her verbal notice of six weeks, she would be in a much better situation than she is now. Instead, she's buried her head in the sand and taken advantage of OP's and her DP's good nature.

Hibernatingtilspring · 27/12/2024 14:33

@Pineapplewaves the council aren't likely to give this woman any accommodation even if she is actually homeless on the day with nowhere to sleep that night - unless there's some exceptional vulnerability that the OP hasn't yet told us.
That's not to say that op should continue to house her, but relying on the council to take her off her hands isn't helpful advice.

Elsvieta · 27/12/2024 14:10

Tell her if if there are any more threats of suicide you'll be compelled to call social services or dial 999 and tell them you've got someone in urgent need of psychiatric help. Add cheerily that her mental health issues will at least probably improve her chances of getting council accommodation.

Mrsbloggz · 27/12/2024 13:34

@sausagedogmumm
When you said "you have six weeks to move out" she heard "I'm a soft touch and you've got me in the palm of your hand"
Why is she threatening suicide? Because she knows that your partner was traumatized by his parent threatening suicide, she knows it's a way to control him so that she can get what she wants, a way to exploit the situation for her benefit.

Pineapplewaves · 27/12/2024 13:18

She won't leave when the six weeks are up. The council will not give her any accommodation until she is actually homeless. I'd change the locks when she is out and not let her back in. She can go to the council and tell them she's homeless.

The council will call you and try to persuade you to take her back as it makes life easier for them than trying to find her somewhere to stay. Stick to your guns and refuse.

When she has somewhere to stay give her X weeks to collect her belongings and her cat, after that you can get rid of them/rehome the cat yourself.

AngelicKaty · 27/12/2024 13:15

Barleycat · 27/12/2024 11:04

Why aren't your cats spayed?

If you'd read all of OP's posts you'd know why. She previously posted: "male cat is neutered and female cat is booked in but has to be off steroids for a certain amount of days before she can be x"

AngelicKaty · 27/12/2024 13:10

There are no grounds to involve the police (this is a civil matter). Only if the grifter friend kicks off and refuses to leave on 6th January could OP involve the police for a potential breach of the peace.

Shatandfattered · 27/12/2024 13:03

Not read the full thread yet but my instant thought is she has no official contract with you so I'd be tempted to get her removed by the police

Applepoop · 27/12/2024 13:02

I wouldn’t have given her 6 weeks notice. She needs to get the fuck out now.

Wimbledonmum1985 · 27/12/2024 13:01

YABU to give this freeloader six weeks notice. I would be turfing her out today quite frankly.

BlazenWeights · 27/12/2024 12:59

You are unreasonable to be asking this question. She needs gone, yesterday!!!!

Playgroundincident · 27/12/2024 12:56

I'd give her six days she has no contract so you owe her nothing. She isn't even a lodger as they pay rent. I'd chuck out all her stuff and remove her poor cat.

AngelicKaty · 27/12/2024 12:55

Polyethyl · 27/12/2024 11:16

Is it a lodger situation when no rent is paid?
If there is no payment then it surely can't even be a lodger status. Just unwanted guest status.

Lodgers (who pay rent) and house guests (who don't) are both "Excluded Occupiers" under housing law and have minimal rights. OP can give "reasonable" notice to leave (six weeks over the Christmas/New Year period is perfectly reasonable) and she doesn't need to get a court order to put them out when the notice has expired.

pictoosh · 27/12/2024 12:51

Great. I was going to suggest a visit to CA.

There you go OP. You're fine to serve notice and tell her to leave.

Do it. I know it will be hard for you to be firm and see it through but you can and you should.
Be tough now. Good luck. x

AngelicKaty · 27/12/2024 12:44

Nchanged89 · 27/12/2024 09:00

Would you put it past someone who uses suicide as a manipulation technique to try get OP to sign an AST to obtain those rights?

Former Citizens Advice adviser here. Under housing law OP's friend, as a lodger, has the housing status of "Excluded Occupier" because she shares a kitchen and bathroom with her "landlord" (OP and her DP). An excluded occupier has virtually no rights and OP just has to give her "reasonable" notice to leave (usually the length of the rental payment period, but as no rent is being paid it could be as little as one week if the lodger has behaved in an anti-social way, as hers has). Excluded Occupiers are not protected under the Protection from Eviction Act 1977 and OP does not have to get a court order to make her grifter lodger leave. Neither OP or her lodger can enter into an AST due to their co-living arrangements, which are dictated by housing law in the absence of a written agreement stating otherwise. OP's lodger could try to persuade OP to sign an "Occupation contract", but do you really think OP would be so daft? They've had nothing in writing since the "friend" moved in, so why would OP formalise the arrangement now? On a related matter, OP does not have to give notice in writing (because there's no agreement to occupy in writing) although if I were OP I would send a text to the lodger saying "Further to our conversation on [date] when I gave you six weeks to vacate our property, this is to remind you that this notice expires on Monday 6th January 2025 and we expect you to move out on or before this date with all your belongings. If you haven't already done so, I strongly advise you to contact our local council's Housing Options Team to make a homelessness application."

Azerothi · 27/12/2024 12:15

Whether she commits suicide or not is not your, or your boyfriend's, problem.

She is despicable to make fun of those people who do feel suicidal but don't boast about it. Get rid as soon as possible. 6 weeks is far too long.

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