Page 5 | Tenant’s ’friend’ locked out

Iwanttoliveonamountain · 27/12/2024 11:40

Hopefully your tenant will be back from his Christmas holiday soon and sort it all out. It could be that he just let a friend stay there while he was away. As the landlord myself, I think you’ve behaved impeccably. But being in the middle of an eviction myself, I wouldn’t start one if you’re tenant has up until this blip been a good tenant.

GraciousMe · 27/12/2024 11:39

If you're worried about security you could organise the lock change and charge them for it.

GraciousMe · 27/12/2024 11:38

I'm usually the first to speak up for tenants having well and truly been done over by unscrupulous landlords myself, but this is cheeky beyond all recognition! Your offer for them to pick up a key was very generous! If the tenant was allowing someone else to stay there while they were away, it is 💯 their responsibility. If they are charging that person/subletting then they are breaking the contract and you could boot them out.

LittleBigHead · 27/12/2024 11:29

Your tenant is breaking the terms of his lease. It’s his problem, frankly.

And you need to say something to your tenant. Weigh up whether he’s worth keeping on.

Paul2023 · 27/12/2024 11:25

I certainly wouldn’t go out of my way to visit the property and change my plans , it’s still the Xmas period. The friend who isn’t locked out , will have to make their own arrangements and stay somewhere else. The friend and your tenant have created this problem.
If your tenant calls you again, ask them what exactly they expect you to do about it and whist your at it ask them why they have someone else staying there who’s been locked out.

Your tenant might be genuine and have a friend staying for a few day but they lacked common sense by ringing you late at night on Boxing day for something that doesn’t warrant an emergency?

Is your tenant from abroad out of interest? Perhaps they didn’t understand that it was Boxing Day and when you say they went abroad was it their home country ? Maybe their culture is different to ours?

Original poster

Catcherintherice · 27/12/2024 11:21

B0RING · 27/12/2024 11:16

Is it a 2 bedroom flat ? Do you know how long the tenant is abroad for?

It’s 2 bedrooms plus a smaller room which is possible only a study/ nursery.

The tenant said he was visiting family. He is not originally from U.K. I don’t think he said how long he’d be away, but I got the impression it was a reasonably short time.

OP posts:

B0RING · 27/12/2024 11:16

Is it a 2 bedroom flat ? Do you know how long the tenant is abroad for?

StressedLP1 · 27/12/2024 11:14

RadFs · 27/12/2024 11:01

Hi @Catcherintherice it does seem like your tenant is sub letting. I’d have to ask the neighbours to keep an eye on the flat. Another thing you could do is go open up let the ‘friend’ take their belongings and make sure he doesn’t take key. ‘Friend’ will probably try breaking in again and harassing you with cas if they can’t. You can keep hold of the spare keys.

I’d be cautious about letting in a rando to get ‘his things’. OP shouldn’t have to incur any risk.

good96 · 27/12/2024 11:13

Catcherintherice · 26/12/2024 22:50

I am a landlord and around an hour ago took a phone call from my tenant. He is visiting family and accidentally locked out his friend who lives with him. Friend has no key and apparently no money as his cards are in the flat.
The friend is not a tenant and has never been a permitted occupier. Today is the first time the tenant has told me he is actually living there.
The flat is over 30 miles from me. I have visitors and have been drinking. I am probably not over the legal limit but I never drive after any alcohol.
I am not really happy about giving access to someone who isn’t a tenant, but as the tenant says he is there, I have offered that he can get someone to collect a key from my home.
I can’t think of anything else. I have posted in AIBU as I don’t think I’m being unreasonable in not offering anything else, and can’t think of what more I can do.
He has contacted a locksmith who has quoted over £400, and wants payment before he comes out.

I am a landlord and have had this happen before.

The friend is not a permitted occupier of the flat, and therefore has no contract with you. How can you prove how legitimate the contact is?

I would not be providing a key. It is not your responsibility. The tenant needs to make arrangements to come home and grant the access or they need to go to relative until tenant comes home….

TheDowagerCountessofPembroke · 27/12/2024 11:10

You are lucky to have such good neighbours!

Original poster

Catcherintherice · 27/12/2024 11:09

B0RING · 27/12/2024 11:05

Have you looked on air BnB and spare room to see if you tenant is subletting the room when he’s away ?

Yes I have now following suggestions on here.

There’s no sign of it.

OP posts:

rainbowstardrops · 27/12/2024 11:09

What cheeky buggers they are! I'm glad the neighbour thinks your property is still secure and I would definitely be there to speak to the actual tenant when they return home. Definitely not on!

B0RING · 27/12/2024 11:05

Have you looked on air BnB and spare room to see if you tenant is subletting the room when he’s away ?

Hoppinggreen · 27/12/2024 11:01

If the Tenant has definitely breached his Tenancy agreement I suggest you move to evict (legally)
Evictions are taking uo to a year at the moment but it IS a Landlords market so you should be able to get another Tenant who is less hassle

RadFs · 27/12/2024 11:01

Hi @Catcherintherice it does seem like your tenant is sub letting. I’d have to ask the neighbours to keep an eye on the flat. Another thing you could do is go open up let the ‘friend’ take their belongings and make sure he doesn’t take key. ‘Friend’ will probably try breaking in again and harassing you with cas if they can’t. You can keep hold of the spare keys.

allaloneandlost · 27/12/2024 10:55

That's a fair update and a good plan.

Cosyblankets · 27/12/2024 10:53

penelopelondon · 27/12/2024 10:21

it's nice to have a lettings agency sort out your tenants dramas problem is that's going to cost her a good chunk of money monthly. On the other hand to all those posters encouraging OP to kick tenant out for breach of contract we don't know if that 'forgetful guest' is the cousin staying a few days to water the plants or an airbnb guest. In any case the teal tenant is giving her too much aggro. I've always made copies of my front door key and made sure to find a very discreet hiding spot, either inside a crack in the wall, inside a pipe etc... or give a set to a trusted close family member in case i loose my keys, it's just Common sense which looks like tenant somewhat lacks.

Edited

Show quote history

We do know
It's right there in the OP

FestiveFruitloop · 27/12/2024 10:53

Mumdiva99 · 27/12/2024 06:53

We had a similar situation with the next door neighbour.
A lovely family rented. Her brother was over from abroad staying. (I don't imagine sublet as he didn't work and had some MH issues.)
He locked himself out when he went in the garden for a cigarette. it was cold and snowing and 11o clock at night.
He knocked on ours.
He was very drunk.
Family had gone away.
I had land ladies number I think - this was a long time ago so I might be misremembering the facts....
She ended up driving up from 15 miles away to let him in.
She was lovely.
The family were lovely and great tenants.
He was a troubled young man the sister was helping out.
I think this was the first time I met the landlady face to face.

Whilst I get not wanting to drive 30 miles on boxing day.

Sometimes a good deed is just that.

But how often are men called upon to be 'lovely' in this way? Hardly ever, it's typically women who are expected to be 'lovely' and put themselves out for the sake of others.

StressedLP1 · 27/12/2024 10:48

I think you need a new tenant that doesn’t breach their agreement by having additional people live there. I’d be more pissed off and concerned about that than the being locked out and contacted on Boxing Day night thing.

Cherrysoup · 27/12/2024 10:41

Catcherintherice · 27/12/2024 10:33

A quick update, although no real progress.

The neighbour who phoned last night has had a look at the front door and there is no obvious damage ( I can’t rule out the inside of the lock being damaged, but am very pleased that the property itself seems secure).

I did eventually silence calls and went to bed. I missed a call from an unknown number at 4.40am - it’s probably a good thing for that person that I didn’t answer at that sort of time.

I have plans for today which don’t involve me going anywhere near the flat and in the cold light of day have decided that I was overly anxious to help yesterday as it was late at night on Boxing Day and I felt sorry for someone who was locked out. My spare key is no longer on offer to anyone but the formal tenant.

I will be arranging to go and see him when he returns to the U.K. to discuss the situation regarding his friend and also appropriate timing of contact for non emergencies.

I have to be available in case of true emergencies such as a major leak or fire, but someone locking themself out does not come within that category.

I had a good look at the Tenancy Agreement to remind myself of finer details. It states that I do not offer an unlocking service and they need to employ a locksmith at their own expense and risk.

I don’t mind the tenant contacting me during normal hours. If I am in the area and have my keys with me of course I’ll pop round and let them in for free, but out of hours in Boxing Day is not really on.

My nice tenant (before aggressive drunk one) used to contact us at stupid o’clock for minor issues eg a mouse or a very minor drip from a rad. We told him no contact after 9pm unless it was a dire emergency. He was always drunk when he contacted us after 9pm, very dramatic ‘There is mouse, she very fast, I cannot catch her’. Get a snap trap! I literally sent some round. Problem solved. Put in place a really strict limit, but you need to investigate who the long term live in friend is, that’s breaking the AST according to you. What will you do about that?

Allthehorsesintheworld · 27/12/2024 10:40

Fwiw I think you went above and beyond offering a key for someone to collect from you. These are grown adults and you’re not a parent on call to bail them out!
I’d remind the tenant they’re breaking the terms of their tenancy agreement.

Cherrysoup · 27/12/2024 10:37

spottedinthewilds · 27/12/2024 10:08

How do you suggest they 'end' the tenancy agreement?

Show quote history

You can send a Section 8 or 21 and the tenancy can be ended if the agreement has been broken. I sent a Section 21 to end a tenancy this year, I wrote about it on here. The tenants kept phoning, drunk, to say they were having issues with each other, then it was mentioned that the police had been round multiple times due to the bloke’s aggressive behaviour when drunk. Then they stopped paying rent and I can’t tell you the mess they left behind, 6 car loads of rubbish I took to the tip. They left when asked, thank god, after multiple threats from them, no forwarding address, no idea how they found somewhere else. Glad to get rid, delighted I didn’t have to go to court.

TwinklyAmberOrca · 27/12/2024 10:35

@Catcherintherice what happened in the end?

I can't believe the tenant had the audacity to even contact you! If he's locked his "friend" out then that has nothing to do with a landlord responsibility.

The tenant should have paid for a taxi for the friend to go and collect a spare key from you (which was a very generous offer!) or the tenant should have paid for their friend to stay in a hotel for the night.

It all sound very dodgy - someone who isn't even listed as an occupier goes out with no keys and no money. I'd certainly inform the police that unless it matches the ID of your tenant then they can't be let into the property.

(EDIT: You updated whilst I was typing!)

Original poster

Catcherintherice · 27/12/2024 10:33

A quick update, although no real progress.

The neighbour who phoned last night has had a look at the front door and there is no obvious damage ( I can’t rule out the inside of the lock being damaged, but am very pleased that the property itself seems secure).

I did eventually silence calls and went to bed. I missed a call from an unknown number at 4.40am - it’s probably a good thing for that person that I didn’t answer at that sort of time.

I have plans for today which don’t involve me going anywhere near the flat and in the cold light of day have decided that I was overly anxious to help yesterday as it was late at night on Boxing Day and I felt sorry for someone who was locked out. My spare key is no longer on offer to anyone but the formal tenant.

I will be arranging to go and see him when he returns to the U.K. to discuss the situation regarding his friend and also appropriate timing of contact for non emergencies.

I have to be available in case of true emergencies such as a major leak or fire, but someone locking themself out does not come within that category.

I had a good look at the Tenancy Agreement to remind myself of finer details. It states that I do not offer an unlocking service and they need to employ a locksmith at their own expense and risk.

I don’t mind the tenant contacting me during normal hours. If I am in the area and have my keys with me of course I’ll pop round and let them in for free, but out of hours in Boxing Day is not really on.

OP posts:

allaloneandlost · 27/12/2024 10:29

It could invalidate the insurance and what if something goes wrong? No way would I be giving some random a spare key whilst the tenant's away and cannot be contacted. I agree with why couldn't the man trying to get in stay with the other one, get a lift or borrow money from him and you don't know if he's just visiting for a few days, been living there or subletting? I'd visit there today to inspect any damage from them trying to break in and find out what's going on like is it being subletted as an Air B&B. Then speak to the tenant when he returns to get the story and possible evict him. There's something not quite right here.