My 4 year old sleeps 7.30-5am and getting shorter

Mine went to bed around 7.30 at that age and were usually awake at 6 but occasionally earlier. I would just bring her into your bed for a cuddle and keep lights off, no tv etc and she might doze or drop off, fingers crossed. Keep your voice at a whisper and say it's still night time, not time to get up yet. Although if she's wide awake, she'll probably want a wee and a drink of water! I'd still take her into your bed for quiet time and a cuddle even if she's not sleepy - you're reinforcing the message that it's not time to get up yet.

My 2yos bedtime is 8-8.30 and she's up 6.30-7.30. Put her to bed later or in her room to play for a bit if you want some time alone.

We’ve only ever done the council nurseries that finish at 3 in line with the school term. Ours is now at school nursery with a 3.30 finish so 7pm is easy and this is what was recommended to us at their introductory presentation. It’s a good point that this wouldn’t work for a private nursery with a 5pm finish.

@username19832756 what sort of work do you do with infants? One of my school gate friends was a paediatrician and her view was that if children didn't need to be woken in the mornings, they were getting enough sleep. Mine genuinely didn't need more than 8 or 9 hours and neither did DH or I as children. We both operate very well on about six hours as does ds. Dd always needed and still needs a little more, 7-8 hours.

If don't believe at all that infants should have snacks on their bedside tables. That cannot possibly encourage a good relationship with food and is potentially disastrous for their dental hygiene.

Mine were both very early risers. Later bedtimes didn't help so we settled at 7pm -530am. Once they started school, they gradually slept a little later. Now they are teenagers and sleep until 1pm so...🤣

For previous posters saying infants need more than 9/9.5 hours and 10 to 14 hours is expected, they are quite right - for the majority of infants. Not all. There will always be children who sit outside the averages and norms. Just like not all children have an IQ of 100, not all are average height, not all are brilliant at running, etc. All children are different and have different needs.

I wonder @softkittywarmkittylittleballoffur if your dd might have periods awake during the night. I know I did and DD, since the age of about 21 has told me she did too.

But 10 hours sleep from 9pm is a 7am wake-up which is a totally normal wake-up time?
The whole point is that each child is an individual and will generally fall somewhere on the 10-14 hour spectrum for sleep needs (and I imagine there are still some outliers). So if your child only needs 10 hours sleep, then 9pm is a fine bedtime. It's not about the bedtime, it's about how much sleep they a) need and b) get. I don't really want or need the kids to be awake before 7, so some days 5yo probably is asleep nearer 9, but she's up at 7-7.30, which seems like a totally standard time to be awake for leaving the house at 8:45 for school.

A 7.30 bedtime is fine, but unrelated to the amount of sleep a child needs. If you have a 10-hour sleeper then you're going to have early mornings. So you either choose later bedtime or put up with the early starts.

DD1 is a 10-11 hour child. DD2 has always needed much more sleep. DD1 dropped her nap way before 2, DD2 is 2.5 and still naps for 2+ hours a day.

Children are individuals.

My DS (now 51, btw) used the wake up around 5.00 every morning. It was just his pattern. It's not the same as them waking up and wanting to play at 2.00 am or something. There's no point in 'good cop/bad cop' stuff. If they're awake, they're awake. They've had the sleep they need. The least stressful way, I suspect, is to adapt your pattern to suit hers.

When she's 13 and it takes a crowbar to get her out of bed, you'll look back at these days with nostalgia.

Has nobody read the OP properly she is ‘always exhausted’. She needs more sleep.

I don’t think 9.5 hours is enough for a 4 year old.

5 is early but 7:30 to 5 seems like enough sleep

Mine would do 7.30-7.30 at that age. Some silly late bedtimes being suggested on here. Kids need a lot of sleep at that age.

Yep. Mine's 30 now.

7.30 is a perfectly reasonable bedtime at that age. She’s waking too early so you need to treat it as a nighttime waking and reset her body clock. So tell her it’s still nighttime and to go back to sleep until at least 7.

Groclocks are also good. And bribery. But you must be firm. No rewards for waking at 5.30. Keep it dark and boring. No TV, no breakfast.

Bonkers the people telling you this is ‘too much’ sleep! I work with infants and I’d be concerned if a child told me they were going up to bed as late as 9pm as some people are suggesting, they still need 10- 14 hours at this stage. It sounds like she’s at the lower end of sleep needs. How is her independence and understanding? Could she have a few ‘special morning’ toys that could keep her occupied until 6ish which is a more bearable wake up time? Would she listen to a tonie box or something? I always have a bottle of water and a breakfast snack on my little ones bedside table for very early morning wake ups - taken on advice from my dear MIL and it’s paid dividends through the years!!

My experience as well for this age is bed time at 8 pm.. but nobody is ripping you apart on this thread🤷‍♀️ it's just that since she doesn't sleep for very long maybe put her to bed a bit later?

No idea what the previous poster is so mad about. My DD is 4 and goes to bed at 18.30 and doesn't get up until about 06.30. It's good for them to have quiet time even if they don't sleep. Mine knows she's got to stay in her room until the yoto light changes colour. You know better than strangers in the internet if your child is sleep deprived or not. The NHS here says 11.5 hours of sleep for 4 years of age:

derbyshirefamilyhealthservice.nhs.uk/our-services/0-5-years/pre-school-3-5-years/caring-your-preschooler/sleep

I don't have much in the way of advice I'm afraid. My daughter didn't sleep through until she was nearly 4, nights were very broken. Now she understands about the yoto light colour things are reasonably good. I daresay you've tried it though!

We've got one like that. By 18 months she'd dropped naps and was going to bed at 9:30/10;00. She's now 9 and rarely sleeps much before 11:00. She's always happily got up at 7:00am, and is happy and healthy with no sign of ND - she's just never needed much sleep. Sure I miss my evenings, but this way round beats mega early mornings, and she does at least lie in bed on her own with a book or Audible for the last hour now.

DS is up by 6 every single day. My advice is to sort it so she amuses herself with TV until 6.30 or so. I get up, put on TV, get out some cereal then go back to bed.

One of mine used to do this. Unfortunately he was just an early riser. When he started school it did get a bit better and he would sleep til about 6am. He is still an early riser now, generally waking between 6-7 but is old enough to entertain himself (read, listen to his yoto player or go downstairs and watch TV).
I think you just have to go with it and get up early too I'm afraid.

Wow I didn’t see anyone tear you apart except maybe first poster?

IMO 7:30 is a good bedtime for a 4 year old.

DS1 is 9 and he goes to bed at 7:30!! Asleep at 8:30 but nothing wrong with sending them to bed for some chill time (for them and for you!)

DD is 2 and goes to bed 6:45-7ish generally (not today, holidays!)

Mine have always been early risers (hence the earlier nights, we’ve always run early. Works for us). Early to bed early to rise :) nothing wrong with that.

I’d say your DC has to stay in their room until 6 (or whatever you deem reasonable), 4yo should be able to do that with a bit of bribing.

@softkittywarmkittylittleballoffur
Just talk to her about staying quiet and playing in her room.
Mine were in bed at 7 at that age up at about 6/6.30, if they woke before they played quietly, coloured or read.
You need to encourage self entertainment in these hours.
My eldest will sleep for Britain. He'd go 6.30pm to 8am - longer if he could.
Middle, has always got up for 5.15ish. Whether to bed at 7pm or 11pm. She would colour and read till 6am. Once she hit 8y would go down and make her own breakfast.
Youngest is 7 currently, have to be up for 6am now she goes up at 7/7.30 lights out at 8pm.
I have always encouraged 30-60 mins of self play, chill out (no screen time) reading for the last 30/60mins of the day. (this is simple to do, parental controls - tells them time up at 7pm)
It's worked well for us as a family.
Good luck OP

In the kindest possible way @softkittywarmkittylittleballoffur, that is likely to be all she needs. At 4 DS went to bed at 9.45/10 and slept until about 6. He admittedly didn't need more sleep than that but it took us years to work out that if he went to bed at 7.30/8 he'd be up for two hours or more from 2/2.30.

If she's asleep by 7.30, 5.30 is fair enough. I don't think you can have it both ways.

7.30 is a fine bedtime, but if you don't have a 12-hour sleeper and have a child who only needs 10, for example, then you have to choose between evenings or early starts really.

Personally I don't mind the evenings, it gives us an extra hour after DD2 goes to bed to play board games with DD1 etc. and she's usually asleep by half 8ish and we go to bed about midnight so we still get a good chunk of childfree time. I don't operate at 5am so would never choose starting my day then. But now DD1 is 5, she is able to amuse herself in mornings for a while anyway.

What a mad comment. My 4 year old consistently sleeps 11-12 hours, the sleep recommendation for this age is 10-13 hours.