Argument with EX wife over gift giving for the children.

I don’t think OP is trying to portray himself as the best dad ever. He asked for advice in his opening post and responded to some inevitably intrusive and irrelevant questions from other posters. I don’t think the four gifts thing is particularly terrible in normal circumstances but ex seems to have used it as an excuse to be a miser to her kids at Christmas and try to control what OP does.

Wow. A father comes on here asking how he does his best for his kids in a situation like this - created solely by his ex - and still gets called a Disney dad. Men really can’t win here can they ?

She cannot dictate your gift giving policy. What a flipping nerve!

That said, I don't know how you'll be able to get round it. Someone on here once said a therapist advised her to use some non-inflammatory words which I thought were really good when I saw them but I forget the best example now. The only one that's stuck with me is that she says " noted" when her ex tries to lay down the law. There's better wording than that though. Don't budge, just try to say something bland and move on. Best wishes.

Agreed. I am not buying it, sounds like a typical Disney Dad to me. I bet there’s just a few little bits he’s missed out telling us here.

You don't tell the dc they aren't allowed to take their possessions to their other home, or you frame it as a sorry guys but mum has a message for you, you are not allowed to take your present from here back to your mums house. Don't worry though they will all be safe here and when you're here you can use play with them etc

This isn't healthy to have one parent trying to control how the other parent behaves and it not parenting together

ultimately she will alienate the children, make life difficult for them and upset them

Try to make life as easy for the children with this situation, don't say anything untoward about this to the children - if they moan just say well I'm sure your mum has her own reasons for this.

Is there anything you dislike about her parenting that you'd like to change - maybe use that as an example to this ex as what you put up with but don't want to control

and while you can tell the kids the truth , you can also try and smooth things over with them, because at the end of the day it's them who suffer.
It's irrelevant who is the better/saner parent.

This.

I'll be honest , for the sake of kids, I would've sent her an email or text reminding her that you will be doing things differently and then asked her to choose if she'd want the kids to bring 4 items home or just their favourite one. Well before in advance so there was some clarity and at least some vague understanding/agreement of what's happening next.

What's done is done though, and now it's about letting things calm down and having a sensible, non confrontational conversation to try and reach a compromise. One of you needs to be the sensible adult and try to smooth this situation over, rather than escalating things and causing an all mighty rift. If that person has to be you, so be it. I would still give her the choice and hope she can be reasonable. If she keeps the hard line of no gifts going to her house, you'll have to accept that and while you can tell the kids the truth , you can also try and smooth things over with them, because at the end of the day it's them who suffer.

It's irrelevant who is the better/saner parent.

P.S. As an aside, the youtube family might follow the 4 rule, but it's never as miserly as slime, tshirt , goggles , book. So for whatever reason , she took this guidance to the extreme.

I never quite buy these posts from men, that portray themselves as 'The Best Dad Ever' with a crazy ex. With loads of Mnetters falling over themselves to tell him what a wonderful father he is and how awful the ex is.

I don't think the 4 gifts thing is that terrible, definitely not child cruelty and a SS issue 🙄, it's just a different way of doing things.

Sure, ex telling the co-parent what they can buy etc isn't great, but there's no need for all this drama.

I think both OP are the ex need to stop the childish one-upmanship and put their children first.

Tbh they live between houses so no issue. Mon rues weds at mums rest time at yours? So they have the rest of the week.and the time at their mums is without. Whilst at mums they talk on and on about an iPad and switch and how they can't wait to go back to dad's. She will cave guaranteed

Surely it's sensible to have it done legally so that nobody can be messed around either way?

No. I don’t think it’s a good thing at all to go to court if there’s any way it can be avoided. This is the courts’ position as well- that’s why they mandate mediation. Court should absolutely not be the default, but rather the very last resort in family arrangements . Furthermore, 50/50 arrangements tend to only work in the best interests of children if there’s a really good relationship/ close cooperation between parents. A 50/50 arrangement with high levels of conflict between parents can be so hard on children.

You can't always avoid a fall out. Just make it clear to her that your rulenis that stuff can go between houses as the kids see fit because itsnl their stuff. You're happy for her to have a different rule amd to keep the stuff at your house but, it's her choice and she needs to tell the kids, otherwise it will be going home with them.l because you simply won't raise the matter. If that ends in a doorstep shouting match, so be it

^this is assuming that you would be happy to have full residency at some point, otherwise its just sending them home to an atmosphere and you'll be winning the battles at the cost of losing the war because your kids will remember all the fights and perhaps grow up to think you enjoyed winding mum up. If you'd never be prepared to have them full time, I'd just say mum wants you to keep it here for now but if that changes they can of course take it next time.

There's always one user who suggests SS whether it's a dad or a mum.

Posters are always recommended to make the Dad take them to court for custody so why is it a bad thing when a Dad actually does that? Surely it's sensible to have it done legally so that nobody can be messed around either way?

Say it was your child who was opening up some slime or some pens and your ex husband had a brand new RR and was opening up really expensive gifts, there is no way you wouldn't be pissed off with that.

I'm a little surprised the 12 year old hasnt called or texted her mum to complain about this. At the end of the day, parents (male or female) who go down these you tube crazy influencer routes often damage their own relationships as a result. This is probably what will happen here with her and the dc.

She's batshit!!

This is why she is your ex. She’s nuts.

You are doing the right thing. Keep doing it.

I wonder what she’d say re all the expensive gifts she got compared to what she got for the dc? Hardly comparable to her 4 gift idea. It’s very petty of her to say they can’t bring presents back to hers. This seems to be more about your relationship with her than her slavishly following some YouTubers who have triple the amount of kids you have, possibly financially motivated in their case because they would be too stretched trying to get 12 children iPads etc.

I wouldn't be accepting more screens and computer consoles into my home without some sort of conversation first either. Screen time with teens and children can be a right battle and I would really begrudge more fucking screens appearing that I then had to manage and regulate. I don't see a problem with any of the other gifts though. I also don't see a problem with your ex wanting to be less driven by consumerism and materialistic items too. Both are valid choices really.

There are some mean posts on here OP - all I see is a great Dad with a positive relationship with his children who has not stuck to some batshit crazy rule about buying christmas gifts. This is solely an exW issue if she wants to introduce a miserable christmas- then so be it. She cannot expect other people to do the same.

From what I read your DC’s are well provided for and supported by you - and the skincare is irrelevant - most 12/13yo near us have that make and type! In fact I bought my niece some last year which she loved. Your ex is the problem, not you. I don’t know how you deal with the gifts not going to her house - but she may need to check herself again especially if your DC’s don’t want to go home.

And Jesus who buys themselves a range rover and has a pile of christmas presents to open when one of their kids gets slime and t- shirt. She knows how to treat herself doesn’t she!!

Sounds to me like they had a wonderful christmas with you and shes pissed off it was so much better than her poor effort!

You need to tell your ex-wife not to be so fucking ridiculous that she would want to make her children not want to come home over this. Have a really frank conversation, tell her that this will drive a wedge between her and the children and then leave it up to her. I would then just totally disengage and not discuss it with her further. No reaction to her, but just support your children. Best of luck

Batshit crazy as always.

Something if off about “dads” posts and I take anything here with a massive pinch of salt, so would bet the other side of the story wouldn’t paint him in such a superior light.

Sadly I think you've inflamed the situation here and not put your children first by having that conversation with them. It's fine to have different gifting ideas and for you to have bought whatever gifts you want but if the EX has asked that you don't send them back that is her choice. You have the children 50 percent of the time and it's fine to have stuff at Dad's. By having the conversation with the children you've pitted them against their mother. And now you want your EX to sort out a situation of your own making? Not cool. Yes, in an ideal world they should be able to move stuff between houses but knowing mum's stance why would you try to use it as an opportunity to score points. You also come across as over focused on your EXs social media viewing of a particular family blaming it in part for the breakdown of your marriage.

Out of interest @As78 , has the ex explained to anyone why she is so wedded to this 4-gift idea and in the way she has? I don’t watch these YouTube families but equally I can’t see a new Range Rover fitting into the ideology of back-to-nature, wild childhood, homeschooling, earth motherhood sort of lifestyle. I mean, that family probably have to stick to the rule because 10 kids, but why is she doing it?

Meanwhile 95% of commentators on this thread are bending over backwards to tell you what an amazing , outstanding father you are, and what a crazy, miserly, psycho bitch your ex is! One user even suggested you report her to social services for child cruelty.

(Oh and the backstory is you left your wife when she was pregnant and dragged her through a court custody battle).

This is our society folks
Well done mumsnet 🤦🏼‍♀️ 👏🏻

I can see why OP told the DC now rather than wait until Sunday. They have time to consider having to leave the gifts at dads versus the possible consequences of taking them to mums and having them thrown out.

Your ex has no right to tell you what to buy your kids for Christmas; equally you have no right to be making an issue out of what she buys.

Which you repeatedly have btw . You even said the words “what self respecting mother would do x, y, z” , because you don’t approve of her Christmas gifts.

Appalling.

I feel so sorry for the kids having to navigate 50/50 when this is the coparenting relationship .