Argument with EX wife over gift giving for the children.

I somewhat agree with with you on point a. I also think this whole debacle could've been avoided if he had talked to her calmly in advanced and reached some kind of compromise. At the same time , a lot of the advice he got was to either let mum explain at drop off (not ideal , and he would be flamed for that too) or tell the kids himself what's going on. (Also not ideal in my eyes) . He chose the latter.

Point b, maybe . It's also a matter of perspective.

Point C, I get where you're coming from, but at the same time let's not forget there are actual children involved here. Children whose mother's behaviour has completely changed , and in this situation is fairly extreme. It would be negligent to pretend it's all fine and good and OP has nothing to worry about and everything she does is well and good because she's a woman/mother.Because we don't know. Do you?

This is really sad. I always make sure my stepdaughter has special places (designated shelves and drawers) to keep things she doesn't want younger siblings to play with, separate from toys they all don't mind sharing and keep together. It's a shame your dad and SM didn't do that 😞

First off, no, she doesn't have the right to set a boundary which has no purpose except to get back at her ex and upset her children. She may well find that she loses the family home as a result as there's no reason for her to be there if her children don't want to be

completely bizarre take. Any person has the right to refuse items ( purchased by someone else ) being brought into their house. This has no bearing on whether she will lose her home.

Anyways, Lord knows I don’t have time for this nonsense.

A lovely evening to you.

First off, no, she doesn't have the right to set a boundary which has no purpose except to get back at her ex and upset her children. She may well find that she loses the family home as a result as there's no reason for her to be there if her children don't want to be.

In answer to the other strange takes you have on this:

a) He relayed the message the mother sent to his children as per her request. You cannot shoot the messenger for that.

b) I would also feel self-congratulatory if I was comparing myself to a woman who spends £100k on a car and £20 on her child's Christmas presents.

c) They broke up whilst she was pregnant and he said he stayed in the home to help until the baby was 6 months. He did not "drag her through a custody battle", he did the exact same thing as she did; acted to ensure his children had 50/50 access to both parents. I'm sure you'd be equally vitriolic if she'd had said he could only see them every other weekend and he'd shrugged his shoulders and gone along with it.

The only hypocrite I'm seeing is you.

As I said earlier in the thread, in my view, children should be able to take items across homes . However, that is the mother’s boundary to set , and she is perfectly entitled to do so , regardless of the financial arrangements concerning the house. It’s extremely problematic to argue otherwise.
Lots of separated parents set boundaries around this. It’s normal.

In terms of your other comments, I certainly don’t think “mothers know best father is always wrong at all”, but :

a) think the OP’s behaviour in bringing the children into this squabble and upsetting them over Christmas was appalling , and makes it clear that he does not in fact have their best interests at heart. he’s clearly more interested in the row with his ex , and alienating the children from their mother.

B) I find his posts self congratulatory and hypocritical.

C) I find it disgusting that 95% on respondents on this thread are blowing smoke up this man’s arse, telling him what an amazing dad he is , because he got his kids an iPad and skin care products (purchased by his gf) , 🙄
(never mind ofc that he left his wife when she was pregnant, and dragged her through a court custody battle…)

Meanwhile pp’s are also more than ready to validate his perspective that his ex is a crazy, psycho-bitch , worst-mother-ever because she bought crap Xmas presents like slime, googles, clothes and books.

Whole thread is shameful display of misogyny in its most classic form.

She has no good reason not to allow the children to have their possessions in their home. In this instance, pretty much everyone, except you and a few other "mother knows best, father is always wrong" commenters agree that she's petty and vindictive.

who decides what is petty and vindictive? The ex husband because he pays the mortgage?

OP is allowed to say what items come into her home. 🙄 The financial arrangements of the divorce settlement are irrelevant

Setting boundaries is something you do to keep your children safe and give them opportunities in life. Being petty and vindictive because you don't like your ex-husband isn't setting boundaries. What she's not allowed to do is make the children feel unwelcome and prevent them from being comfortable in their home. If the children refuse to go back to her home because the environment has become hostile, and the OP ends up getting a modification that the children live with him, the ex will no longer be allowed to live in the house.

So the OP is not entitled to set boundaries with regards to how she parents her children in her own home.

Patently ridiculous and profoundly sexist.

You seem a bit confused about coparenting.

OP's ex is not being "undermined" because OP did not agree to her idea.

OP does not have to compromise (by doing exactly what she says and giving them 4 gifts...) they are separated and he can do exactly what he likes and feels is in the children's best interests.

Oh give over. OP moved out and has his children 50% of the time. I don't know the area but the price of a brand new Range Rover would easily cover a deposit on a house in most parts of the country. The ex could move out of the family home and buy somewhere perfectly adequate to house her children. The Court, or OP, has made the decision that THE CHILDREN should be able to stay in the family home until they reach adulthood. The ex just happens to be the one that shares it with them. Reasonable rules are essential parenting, preventing the children from keeping their possessions is quite another.

i don't think ANYONE who buys a range rover has any chance of being concerned about consumerism.

Tbf it's not hard to upstage tshirt, slime ,goggles book for a 9 yo and pens, socks, tshirt, book for a 12 yo.

You are coming across as a litle defensive. I get it - I have also been through a bitter divorce and it is unpleasant and difficult to deal with. I dont think you can catagorically say you know her finances as you are no longer together. You can only assume you know her finances. That she has a range rover is not relevant to assumptions about her finances - she also has a large family so would need a large car to transport them.

I also think the gift giving rules are sensible and sustainable / environmentally friendly. I can understand why she is upset about your gifts upstaging hers. I can also understand that you have different rules and dont need to abide by hers now - totaly agree.

But why are you passing on the mums rules to the kids meaning you are the one upsetting them? Plus how are you putting it across to them - if you put it across in a way that implies your feelings it will of course upset them. Poor kids they are really cought in the middle - feel for them. I would advise letting your ex tell the kids about her rules so that she takes ownership for the rule and any upset caused. When she sees they are upset she may relent and negotiate with the kids. I would keep that boundary in place - each person takes ownership of their own rules and is responsible for telling the children.

Eh? He's probably...spending time with his kids.

It sounds like she doesn't want her kids to have any fun at Christmas.

Good luck for tomorrow @As78

Your approach to Christmas sounds perfect and her approach sounds utterly miserable. I would tell them to keep the large toys at your home as something to look forward to when they are at yours and let them do what they want with the smaller bits. It would be ridiculous of her to not allow your daughter to take her skincare as most people like to stick to the same products. Stay calm and ultimately they will probably vote with their feet.

I can see both sides of this. Her issue is that all the gift giving with you is undermining her gift giving approach. I can understand her gift giving approach….. Christmas has become consumeristic and excessive and involves so much waste which isn’t sustainable and doesnt help our environment. I also am saddened by photos on social media of ridiculous piles of gifts stacked high when so many others have so little. I also wouldn’t want a horse full of clutter from other folks gifts. This is a first world issue to be sure.

Maybe to compromise you could agree 4 gifts each and loosen the rules around what they are. Maybe keep the gifts at your house …. With only one special item going to hers each time. If it’s 50/50 care I can’t see why all gifts need to go to her house?

I agree her rules don’t apply to your parenting…. You can do what you want. But your gift approach will affect and undermine her gift approach and will ultimately affect the kids. Reaching some middle ground would be best for the kids if at all possible.

quite. there's nothing wrong with the four gifts guideline, if the presents are BETTER. and if there's a stocking of fun, silly bits too.
but the want and the need being a tub of slime and goggles! that's stingy as hell, unless you really can't afford more than that.

sounds like she's jealous that they're enjoying your presents more than hers, and there's no bloody wonder that they are.

I think you need to start documenting every incident/ohonecal/text message etc. so if things get worse you’ve gone t like a diary 📔 f what happened when. Just the date, time, where the interaction was eg on your doorstep, by phone (who phoned who) etc. then you’ve a diary of events to help you if things get really bad. Make sure you write down who was doing the shouting etc and which kids were about and the effect on them. That 4 present rule is stupid by the way. Me and my husband do without if necessary to give his son a nice Christmas. We do try and buy educational stuff like board games that help their counting and reasoning. And also when he was littler switch games with some reading in it as it helped his reading develop.

i have step children I love to bits but I came into their lives when they were too old and the damage was done. Keep track of what’s happening and if things get even more crazy and upsetting see a lawyer. You sound like a god man, I’m glad your children have you. Can recommend some good family games - we do the usual monopoly and Lydia but have found cooperative games which are great for kids with too much friction already. Basically in a cooperative games which are either every one wins or everyone dies. Give me a shout if you fancy recommendations and the very best of luck to you all

@As78 … disappearing is not good MN etiquette!

Unless the EXW has seen the post…

Tell her the kids can pick four gifts each from you to bring home with them as is right. That means they can pick the best things to take both places.

what a bitch to try to dictate when and how her kids have joy.

Yes I understand. I was just trying to explain that pp’s point as I understood it. She wrote:

”It isn't the ex's home - It's the children's home that she is allowed to reside in..”

it doesn't belong to the children though. It's a marital asset that under normal circumstances in a divorce would be sold and split, but they have agreed that rather than uproot the kids, to let her and the kids stay there until they're adults, and THEN sell it.